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Supporting Civil Rights for Atheists and the Separation of Church and State
27
Aug
2011
There is no controversy. Creationism doesn't belong in our public schools.
One of the issues that American Atheists, Inc. tackles in our goal for the total and complete separation of church and state is the teaching of Creationism as science in public schools, which remain a goal for many school boards - particularly in the southern United States. Creationism, even under it's other monikers, "Creation Science" and "Intelligent Design", is not science, nor is it intelligent. It is a department of fundamental apologetics. The sole purpose of creationism is to defend the biblical book of Genesis. It exists only for religious purposes and it abandons anything that even remotely approaching scientific research.
Because there lacks empirical evidence to prove creationism as viable, many creationists attempt to disprove the real science by using sources from other creationists and often cite references from pseudo-scientific sources or from scientists whose judgment have been clouded by religious belief. While phrases like "teach the controversy" are common talking points and serve to generate a false sense of equality amongst it's proponents, creationism should not be presented as competitive or comparative because it lacks equal footing with evolutionary theory. Evolution concerns itself with change through discourses such as natural selection and genetic drift, and incorporates other sciences such as biology, archeology, paleontology, etc. Evolutionary theory is true to the scientific method. Creationism concerns itself with the presumption that either one of the two glaringly contradicting and well-plagiarized creation myths in the book of Genesis are the only possible explanations that account for the origin of the universe and everything in it.
The basic components of creationism that have been tested through real science, such as the age of the earth and that it was once completely covered in water, have failed. Creationism has been scientifically disproved and any vestiges of science that remained have been discredited due to the inclusion of magic or magical events, which are untestable.The fact that evolution through natural selection, which is not "chance" or "random", has occurred and continues to occur and is without question the best explanation for the mechanism of change. Logic and evidence leads to these conclusions. Evolutionary theory consists of a tightly interwoven fabric of observations and logical conclusions. Comparing the vast knowledge base that has been accumulated, tested and proved for evolution, the continuing flow of new information that further adds to the knowledge base and a century and a half of unsuccessful attempts to falsify it by the scientific community, it becomes inconceivable that anyone still believes in the bizarre details of the Genesis creation myth.
If creationists somehow managed to eradicate all knowledge of evolution, honest men and women in the future who took to studying the facts of nature would end up rediscovering it because evolution is science, is testable and in accord with the facts of nature. Unlike creationist dogmas, which are not testable and are contradicted by the testimony of nature.It is almost scandalous that the creation myth survives in this day and age and even more preposterous that those in positions of authority on school boards would see creationism replace real science in our public schools. Creationism is an insult to the collective of human intelligence. Living a life according to myths and fairy tales is nothing short of childish and those who would cause detriment to the proper education of our children amount to little more than the "blind leading the blind" and they should have no place in deciding who is taught anything.
Al Stefanelli - Georgia State Director, American Atheists, Inc.
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Comments
Hmmm, aside from the possibility of ancient astronauts tampering with our creation, that may be de facto true. But, nonetheless, there are a lot of boldfaced claims being made in all of the ancient religious texts, claims about angels and gods from the heavens, which apparently the History Channel takes the ancient aliens hypothesis seriously at least.
"... our public schools."
What does that even mean? If they are "our" schools, doesn't that include the creationists? If they are "public", doesn't that mean everybody gets a say?
If you're going to start a discussion using broad meaningless statements, then you shouldn't expect much success.
No, it doesn't mean that everyone has a say. If that were true, the curriculum would include all sorts of crazy garbage.
Agreed with Al Stefanelli, we have to go with what is the most rational solution. Its okay if you want to teach creationism at church or in your home but kindly keep it out of our schools.
Same question: who decides what the most "rational solution" is? And again: if they are "our" schools, then why do you think you should get to decide what should be in them?
I think the "our" is an inclusive pronoun, not an exclusive one.
The curriculum is decided within the district at an administrative level (the school board and the school administrators) and also by individual departments and its teachers. Second, I never said I as in just me, I said we. In the U.S., we pay taxes to support government-run schools but those schools are run according to the U.S. constitution.
Quote from Krysralline Apostate: "I think the “our” is an inclusive pronoun, not an exclusive one."
Yes, which would include the creationists.
Quote from BlackAtheist: "... but those schools are run according to the U.S. constitution."
The Constitution says absolutely nothing about schools or education, so I'm not sure how you can run a school in accordance with it, let alone tax somebody for it.
All the administrators and teachers deciding what is to be taught is just another set of 'they', not "we". The fact that 'I' don't agree with it is enough to show that is isn't "we".
Which includes everyone. It doesn't mean they get to insert that into the system, any more than a scientolgist can.
Are you unfamiliar w/the approach used, then?
Nice to see you acknowledge that democracy is just a facade with which to force the views of one group on to another.
Who gets to decide what's "crazy garbage"? You? Some "expert"? The "majority"? (Be careful with this last one. You never know when you might end up being in the minority.)
The public schools are just another way to push indoctrination. Agreeing with the indoctrination doesn't change what it is.
I wouldn't be so quick to scream "indocrination". This isn't a matter of who but what. These schools are run according to our constitution. Now because these schools are tax-funded, they are secular in the operation, you know like separation from church and state? Its the law and that's how its done.
Again, the US Constitution provides the Federal government with no authority over schools or education.
The "what" has to be decide by somebody (i.e., the "who"). Your distinction is meaningless.
One person's education is another person's indoctrination. I would guess that what you consider secular is not what I would consider secular (e.g., the idea of tax-funded schools).
...and the typical curriculum does contain a lot of garbage. Couple that with the "soft bigotry of low expectations" and the anti-social caste system generated by kids' families' personal wealth and opportunity, and there's the kernel of my rationale for homeschooling my kids. The fact that public school boards will even entertain the discussion about whether to allow anti-intellectualism in the science classroom is enough to convince me that I don't want those people at the helm of my kids' educational journey. I wish there were more atheists passionate enough about their kids' education to pull them out of the cesspool of public education. Many people assume Fundies have a lock on that option. It's an awesome alternative if you have the freedom and interest to do so. Plus it's a blast!
Look geoih, these schools are public for all children but its also government-run. Now that does include the creationists but because our government is secular, these schools steer clear of religious teachings. Its just a fact, now if you have a problem with that, you can try and appeal to the school board but that's just the way things are done in America. Get used to it.
Quote from BlackAtheist: "Its just a fact, now if you have a problem with that, you can try and appeal to the school board but that’s just the way things are done in America."
I always find it amazing how a repressed minority rushes into the bosom of tyranny for comfort and then immediately wants to turn the guns of tyranny on their perceived 'enemies'.
Don't worry, I'm quite used to it. I'm quite used to watching atheists continually marginalized and ignored by the latest con-man elected to office. I'm quite used to watching all of the most principled arguments summarily dismissed by our learned elders in fine black robes, or voted down by righteous majorities. I'm quite used to all the dashed hopes for wresting the reigns of power for a victory for secularism.
Freedom and liberty do not spring from the guns of the state. Investing your hopes is such a system will only result in more of the same. Get used to it.
Geioh, get over it. Evolution is a scientific fact. Its been proven by fossil, biological, and genetic evidence. That and its supported by the scientific community. This is truth, creationism has no credentials in academia and doesn't belong in public school, so get over it.
geoih posted: If they are “our” schools, doesn’t that include the creationists? Yes, it does indeed include people who believe in intelligent design; however it also includes people who believe in Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. Let's give all religious believers (because it is THEIR school too) equal time in the classroom and forget about math and science. What if all Jews believed that the earth was flat, should that be taught in the classroom? What if all Muslims believed that the sex of an offspring was determined by the female and not the male, should that be taught too? If not, why? Is it because it is scientifically wrong, or is it because it is not a Christian held belief? My guess is the latter.
Geoih: There is no way to do biology without understanding evolution by natural selection. Biological scientists understand that. I do not know any scientists who disagree and I know a lot of scientists (I am on the "Steve" list). There is no scientific debate. No disagreement amongst scientists. So, while decisions about curriculum are made by local school boards, they (and you) are simply not qualified to actually make the decisions just like they and you are not qualified to judge whether the theory of gravity or quantum physics should be taught. School boards should not interfere with the teaching of Science. It results in the dumbing down of our educational system. Of course there are rogue school boards who insist on politicizing the teaching of Science to adhere to their religious beliefs. In these hard times, I believe only societies who use scientific principles to make policy decisions will survive. We should encourage our young people to learn and love Science.
Quote from grist: "In these hard times, I believe ..."
The issue isn't the science, it's the politics. You believe that science is the solution. Creationists believe something else. I think the creationists are wrong, but I don't think pointing a gun at them and forcing them to do something other than what they believe, is the solution.
Everything done by the state is done under the threat of death. Threatening people is not typically a very good way to change their minds. Worse, those same guns of the state can easily be turned around and pointed at you.
What're you talking about? No one's out trying to kill creationists, we just don't want Intelligent Design taught in public schools. If they have a problem with it, they can either fork out the money to send their kids to private school, homeschool them, or have private tutors teach them until they're old enough to earn a G.E.D. but that's it. Pure and simple.
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