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04
Jan
2012
Where Do Atheists Turn For Strength In a Crisis?
Instead of begging an imaginary being for strength in a crisis, I reach out to others or rely upon myself. During times of crisis I do not plead, “God please help me!” or “God give me the strength!” I simply tell myself that I can do it or that I can make it through it. Often I reflect on the fact that I’ve been in worse situations and fared just fine. I can also turn to my family and friends for help and advice. And in extreme cases I rely on the assistance of trained professionals, such as firemen, police officers, medical doctors, etc. I analyze each situation logically instead of emotionally. I figure out the best way to get out of the crisis. I walk into a hazardous and dangerous situation, take charge of it, and think it through. I take control of all the assets available to me, solve the situation, and get myself out of danger. I have fought fires, chased criminals and been in some desperate situations. Each time I was able to gather my own inner strengths and battle the situation head-on.

Atheists do not cry out to imaginary gods when injured or sick: we call 911. So do theists, but they will credit their god instead of the professionals.
That is not to say that I am not emotional or that I do not react emotionally. It is hard not to react emotionally since our biology evolved to do such. Our emotions help us survive. I have seen lots of blood and damaged bodies in my time and I have never reacted emotionally. My training took over and I did what I had to do. When my daughter got hurt, it was different – my biological instincts overrode my training and I freaked out. It took me some time to come down, react logically, and get my act together in order to get her to help. One thing I never did during that time was pray to a god or ask for help from a supernatural being. I did it on my own and got my daughter to the science of medicine, not the pseudoscience of church. Another thing that helps me get through situations like that is my own body with the chemical reactions and processes that take place inside it. Adrenaline will do wonders in an emergency! I also seek help from people and things that can really help me. I do not seek help from imaginary beings and invisible friends that theists give credit to for doing something themselves. I find strength and help from some of the following:
- My children, family, and friends
- Music
- Laughter
- Adrenaline (Yes – I am an adrenaline junkie!)
Prayer and gods do not cure our diseases or solve problems during times of crisis. Where prayer and faith help is by calming the fears people have because prayer acts as a form of meditation and can have a therapeutic influence (even a placebo effect). Prayer and faith may give people the courage and emotional strength to continue, but they do not solve the problems that people face. We, as human beings, solve those problems ourselves. Imaginary beings do not give us the answers. We come up with them. Why do theists give their gods credit for their own actions? Why do theists deny themselves the credit they deserve for being human beings with the ability to think on a higher level? Give yourself credit where credit is due. I do not know how many times I have heard theists say to people suffering from clinical depression, “Pray to god, and he will help you.” God and prayer do not cure clinical depression. Clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain that prayer cannot cure. If you are a theist and have ever told someone to pray to get rid of his or her depression, you owe that person an apology. In addition, you should advise that person to seek medical help for their condition. When Pat Robertson tells people that they have to take mental health medication because their faith is not strong enough or Tom Cruise lambasts against mental health medication because his Scientology beliefs are medically ignorant, those ideas cause harm and additional suffering to those that believe them. Often we find this argument being used in the “there are no atheists in foxholes” statement. There are atheists in foxholes. I served in the Navy for almost ten years and encountered several life-threatening situations. Not once did I pray to a god to get me through the crisis. If anything, I would aver that there are no theists in foxholes. When we are in the heat of battle, our training and experience take over and we do our jobs. It is not until after the battle is over, when we have a time to reflect upon what happened, and upon our morality, the theists begin to thank their gods and prayer.

Medical Science actually helps you. Prayer leaves you for dead.
When someone chucks a grenade into your foxhole you do not pray that god gets rid of it: you grab it and chuck it back out. You may pray latter if you are a theist – but when your life was in danger you relied on your training and your instincts – you saved yourself. Talking to fellow sailors and soldiers, I have learned one thing about god during a crisis: people forget about him. During a battle or major crisis, people forget about god most of the time. They attack the situation head-on and either save themselves or dig themselves into a deeper hole or cause their own death. Only afterwards, do people start reflecting on the situation and thank a god for saving them. God did not save them – their quick action and ability to think during a crisis saved them. My father served in Vietnam. Vietnam made him realize that there was no god and he became an atheist in the foxhole. The foxhole made him an atheist. Several friends of mine served time during war and each of them found strength in their atheism instead of finding a god in their foxhole. War to him or her was proof that there was no god. One of the things that I have noticed during times of major crisis is that the hyper-religious often served as a hindrance to getting the job done and saving our butts. The hyper-religious would start to pray and cower to their god while the non-religious or the lightly religious would accomplish the mission or objective. Often after a major catastrophe, we hear people say, “I had a guardian angel watching over me” or “God saved me from dying.” That is nice that they think their god saved them from death – but what about the other people that died. Did they not pray hard enough? Did their god not listen or were they not worthy? And why did their god put them in that situation in the first place? When engaging in a protest in Tennessee a woman approached me and told me god cured her cancer. I told her it was amazing that her cancer went away with prayer only and without any medical doctors, drugs, chemotherapy, etc. Of course then she admitted that she went through all that. But her god got the credit: not the medical science. She droned on about how god helped her through her crisis and how thankful she was to her god for getting her through and curing her. I asked her if she thanked her god for giving her cancer in the first place. Deer in headlights look followed and she left without answering my question. I guess she had not thought of that before. When you hear about people that were praying to a god during a time of crisis it is important to pay attention to their story. Often you will find that those that were actively praying during a crisis were in a stagnant mode. They were hiding under a desk (as we witnessed at Columbine) or were hiding in a basement or bathroom (such as in tornado activity) or were doing something else that left them inactive during the crisis. Those that were taking action talk about thanking their god after-the-fact. The atheists, on the other hand, thank the firefighters, police officers, rescuers, medical doctors, etc. The last decade of my life has found me in several crises. In each of these cases, I turned to my family, my friends, and myself for the strength to tackle each situation. Together with my family and friends we pulled through each crisis without any help from imaginary beings. We came out of each crisis stronger and closer than ever before. To our theist friends, the next time a fireman pulls you out of a burning building, thank him – not your god. The next time a doctor cures your ailment, thank her – not your god. Give credit where credit is due. by Blair Scott
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Comments
I sometimes wish I had a higher power to turn to in times of crisis,
alas I only have the comforts of chaos and thermodynamics to comfort me, and the cold reality (no pun intended) that this is it....BLINK there goes another moment....BLINK there goes another year....better enjoy it while you are here.
Thank you
A great article and very well put. I've never understood why the christians use doctors, hospitals, prescription drugs, etc., and thank their god for their wellness, but not curse him for their sickness or a loved ones death. I believe it was Penn who said "if you wear a seatbelt or stop at a red light, you're an atheist."
"Instead of begging an imaginary being for strength in a crisis, I reach out to others or rely upon myself. During times of crisis I do not plead, “God please help me!” or “God give me the strength!” I simply tell myself that I can do it or that I can make it through..."
I couldn't agree more. One of the greatest benefits of shedding superstitious belief is realizing just how important it is to surround yourself with competent and trustworthy people, and the necessity of making a conscious effort to become such a person yourself.
Excellent post. Keep up the good work.
Terrific article Blair. So many of my friends thank their god and call upon him in time of despair, and they just don't see the irony of while they are praying to god, they are driving as fast as they can, to get to Birmingham to see the "best" doctors. Now to add a little comedy to my post.
As a mother, I love sharing funny stories about my children. When Blair's daughter was injured, this is how it played out. Rose had fallen on a picture frame, and it basically sliced her arm, away from her elbow. Now she is not crying, Mom is holding the rag onto the wound, walks her to the living room and shows the wound to me, and I turn around, walk out to the pool, and tell Blair that we are taking Rose to the E.R. He gets out of the pool, in his relaxed, EMT stride, and says, well let's see what she has done.... his wife, lays back the towel, Blair turns a freaky color, and he begins to run to the back of the house screaming "call 911, call911". It then became a hysterically funny moment for all of us.
Blair, it seems as if you have seen more in your life than I can imagine. What a well written article! And, thanks for pointing out the obvious that many religious folks miss. If you're going to thank any god(s) for getting you out of a situation alive, you must also blame said god(s) for putting you there in the first place.
If god truly loved us,He would have never allowed us to be sick or injured in the first place.
It is just plain disrespectful to ignore the valiance and strength of the people around you, when your life is saved by a paramedic at 3AM on a tuesday, when the rest of us are asleep in bed with our wives and husbands, they are out saving lives. And people have the audacity to thank "god" instead of thanking the person that was brave enough and compassionate enough to come to your rescue?
This is one of the most deplorable behaviors i see among theists, and it is truly a shame that the amazing >people< out there in our armed forces, medical establishments, research laboratories, and emergency response teams do not receive the appreciation and gratitude they deserve for what they do everyday, all in favor of some imaginary friend that intellectually underdeveloped people find comfort in.
Truly saddening, and a testament to the rampant ignorance even as we roll into the 21st country, in arguably the most "developed" nation on earth. Thank you for posting this and bringing the topic up, as it unfortunately needs to be.
I agree it is very sad that Christians perhaps have not thanked medical professionals and the valiance and strength of people. However, I as a Christian, am part of a much larger community of Christians who DO thank medical professionals and understand the importance of medication, training and scientific discoveries that have been made my humans. I do not doubt the strength of humans nor what we are capable of. When I have been in death defying circumstances, I have asked the Lord for help, BUT I ALSO reference my own strength and call upon those trained in the field - perhaps it's doing everything I can rather than limiting myself to just rely on myself and those trained, I also rely on another source. I apologize to Blair and others who have encountered Christians who have not thanked those who have spent time being trained in something and have not received credit.
I also must say that as far as the woman who did not answer the question regarding thanking God giving her cancer in the first place, her study of theology seems much more emotional based rather than intellectually. Intellectually, I can tell you that many of my friends who have struggled through cancer and perhaps still are struggling through diseases have thanked the Lord because of the good it has brought. We, as Christians, look beyond ourselves - to a greater good in our lives and what I mean by that is looking to perhaps the relationships built during that time or the pause taken in life to reflect on the goodness similar to what Blair is saying when he discusses he's seen the success of a medical tool work - we see that as success, but also look at the relational outcome. Also, this is the root problem of evil that you are discussing. You look at it as God gave you cancer, however, you are ignoring the root problem that if you are offering that God could have given this woman cancer, than Satan could have just as easily. So really it is God who perhaps allowed the woman to have cancer for a greater purpose. But I feel as though intellectually you won't allow that to be feasible. It is an intellectual argument, however, your easy way out seems to be sum all of Christian's arguments up into emotions rather than seriously considering them. I don't say that condescendingly (as Blair's article seems to be towards Christians) but I mean that as truthful request to intellectually survey the material. Because honestly, Christopher Hitchens (who I've met and had nice conversation with) obviously relied on himself and medical professionals and died so we aren't always strong enough to just rely on ourselves. And not that if he believed in God, it would have saved him, but we also won't ever know that.
Evelyn,
You said, "You look at it as God gave you cancer, however, you are ignoring the root problem that if you are offering that God could have given this woman cancer, than Satan could have just as easily."
Presumably, you admit then that you are at least a duotheist if not a polytheist, correct?
After all, you have just credited Satan with the same power as God. And, of course, God is incapable of getting rid of Satan. So, clearly they are equals. Right?
Satan does not have the same power of God. Remember, God threw Satan into the pit of fire, showing there is inequality in power. In addition, Satan's goal is for us to sin, not bring horror and death upon the world. Please, I cannot stress this enough. HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION. PLEASE.
I have been practicing medicine for 25 years and I have thanked my god every day for what he has done through me. When a patient is critical modern medicine cannot succeed by itself. The pt. must have the will to live and my team has to work perfectly. As a human I am not perfect but god often picks up my slack when he sees fit
I actually find it quite liberating to rely on myself instead of God. By relying only on myself I am accountable for my actions and I strive to be the best me possible.You don't have to pray for a good score on exam, just study hard for the it, your the one taking the test not God.give credit to those who help you, they need and deserve the praise,not some bronze age sky God.
It is a bitter pill to swallow indeed for humans to know they are responsible for there lives and world but very liberated to know you don't have to depend on an imaginery sky god ,who lets you down all the time.
I'm an atheist, but when my close friend was dying of an overdose at a rave I found myself praying. While my friend was convulsing, in her last moments of life, I remember thing, "Please god, don't let this happen." I guess it was out of desperation. I haven't thought of god before or since. Is there something in our reptilian cortex (not literally but you know what I mean)that believes in a higher power?
I'm ashamed of myself for praying. It makes me feel like a coward.
Dear education first :
I'm sorry for your loss.
As always, it seems it's a bitter & very painful time in your life to lose someone you love so much as I can only imagine how you felt on that day.
Life's so precious, & it seems that when they die they take a fragment of you with them.
But please remember, others are with you, friends, family, offering their friendship & love to enrich your life with fulfillment.
This may not fill the hole within you but as time passes, it should help. At least I hope so.
Now, to answer your question.
I think it was out of desperation & a religious indoctrination's the only reason you'd call to a deity
because at birth, we're all
atheists & no nothing or any gods.
Hence the term, godless.
Well. I hope I've helped you in some small way, & as you go farther in life meeting people, having good times, & of course, having to navigate your way through lifes many challenges.
For that, I wish you happy sailing, education first, & take care.
Your friend :
Erebus Priest
I believe that people believe in a god because they feel they need hope. Thats what u were wanting. Hope. If u were raised by or around theists it probably just came out in your state of panic. Like Blair said, you went back to your training.
I am so sorry for your loss. Perhaps you should look at yourself as courageous instead of a coward. You were courageous enough to hope and believe that perhaps something else could help rather than be a coward and only think that what you believe is right. You were able to step outside yourself for a moment and look at other possibilities - you were brave to hope.
No not hope. Love. We love God for he has loved us. Just think of it that way.
rgraham1 & ken, I agree with both of your posts and would add that it is also liberating to know that my life has meaning, exactly the meaning I choose to give it.
My christian wife just died after a 5 1/2 year battle w cancer 54 yrs old. I see a therapist go to a gym cried golfed spent new years w my stepdaughter n grand kids. I see how religion is an out for many but I feel stronger as a human working it this way .
interesting article, but i don't see all the need to 'convince' people there is no god. if atheists are so convinced there is no god, why bother convincing others? i always thought that atheists feel the compulsion to 'knock' god because deep down they don't believe god doesn't exist.
"if atheists are so convinced there is no god, why bother convincing others?"
It really depends on the individual atheists background and perspective on religion. There are a great many atheists who don't really care if other people are religious as long as the religious people don't try to forcefully impose their beliefs on others. Some atheists are even cultural christians, jews, muslims, etc. who don't believe in any God or deity but go through the motions of the religion because they enjoy the community and the community's activities. I'd have to say that the atheists "who feel the compulsion to ‘knock’ god" are generally anti-theists who believe that all religious beliefs, or the religious beliefs of a particular religion or sect, are dangerous or lead to dangerous and misinformed actions. The belief that some or all religious beliefs are dangerous can stem from personal experience of a religion's dangerous activities or an examination of some of the effects of religious beliefs throughout history or even just in the world today.
As a final note, atheists don't make the claim that God doesn't exist and don't try to convince people as such; rather, atheists shoot down and disprove the claims that God does exist and try to inform others about these disproven claims and the negative effects they can have.
good explanation.
but to be fair, a lot of atheists ARE militant in preaching atheism - those are the ones i was referring to. why bother with the billboards, media campaigns, etc.
if atheists equate belief in god with belief in santa claus or the easter bunny, why aren't there campaigns to dissuade people from believing in santa claus or the easter bunny. it's a somewhat silly point, but i made it to illustrate the fact that atheists ARE 'scared' of people believing in god (predominantly the judeo-christian god).
i've had many discussions and conversations with atheists, and most were nice people. but at the end of the day, they can no more disprove god than i can prove god. it boils down to personal experience and nothing can change that.
"but to be fair, a lot of atheists ARE militant in preaching atheism"
Most of the famous and easily noticed atheists are either militant and/or anti-theists because they are the most outspoken and controversial. Because of this it is fairly common stereotype that most atheists are the same way.
"those are the ones i was referring to. why bother with the billboards, media campaigns, etc."
I'm more the type of atheist that doesn't care if people are religious as long as they don't try to force it upon me, but if I had to guess I'd have to say that anti-theists speak out because they passionately believe that belief in God is dangerous and that they are helping society by trying to show this to other people. I think it's similar to the efforts of people who try to convert others to their religion in that the person does so because they are passionate in their beliefs and because they honestly think that they are helping others.
"if atheists equate belief in god with belief in santa claus or the easter bunny, why aren’t there campaigns to dissuade people from believing in santa claus or the easter bunny."
Typically, belief in santa claus and the easter bunny don't really affect the decisions of grown-ups and those in power. Belief in santa clause and the easter bunny is also lost as people grow older and is viewed by nearly everyone as harmless; however, belief in God, depending on the specific God, religion and religious sect, affects a great deal of a person's beliefs and views. It affects views on homosexual marriage and adoption by homosexual couples, views on contraception, views on women, views on modern medicine and vaccinations, views on other races and members of other religions, etc. Because of this, theists who are more extreme in their views can perform very dangerous and foolish actions; For example: bombings of abortion clinics, making the use of condoms taboo in countries that are riddled with AID's and HIV, refusing medical attention to a sick child because they believe that prayer alone should treat disease, discrimination and acts of violence against homosexuals and members of other religions, etc.
"but at the end of the day, "they can no more disprove god than i can prove god."
True, you can't really prove a negative claim such as "X does not exist" or "X does not have a hand in Y"; because of this, it is typical that a person doesn't believe something until it is proven true. That's why nearly all atheists are "agnostic atheists" who don't believe in God because they don't know if a God exists.
"it boils down to personal experience and nothing can change that."
When a person chooses to believe or not believe based on their own personal experience and beliefs, then that is their choice and if they're happy, not hurting anyone, and not forcing their views on others then more power to them.
Great post & well said...Turning to prayer is as silly as taking out a lucky horseshoe...Between prayer and a horseshoe, I'd take the horseshoe out because when prayer "fails", devotees blame themselves in a way that they would not if they were just swinging around a rusty horseshoe over the entire congregation and happened to smack someone with it. Besides, prayers are easier said than done with the exception of a curious litany that I used as a Catholic school girl because the "Our Father" bored me: "Lord, please systematically assist Sisyphus's cyst-susceptible sister", which is easier done than said.
Hi guys, I just want to tell you something. I'm not here to spread the word, just to clarify something. I get you Atheists hate us. And I understand we Christians are dumb hypocrites. But honestly, think about it. Not every Christian is like that. Lots of them care, and many of even try to help the poor. Thing is, it's an imperfect society, and we can't do anything about that. And plus, have any of you tried praying faithfully? No? I'll tell you why. Because you never try. It's like me saying I don't believe the stars are suns, but rather shining images made by a great being because I have never bothered to look into the study of astronomy. You just don't give praying chance. Even if you do, you wouldn't do it faithfully. Honestly, if you look deeper, there is side in Christianity that cares about the world. And call the believing in imaginary friends dumb. But in the end, when all is down upon us, we do need some help when nobody is around.
I think you may have missed Blair Scott's point in the main article. While you're praying, he's doing something. While you're praying, he's saving lives. Not all atheists have his strength of character. I know I don't. But, let's not criticize those who are solving the problems for not praying enough because ... when it comes right down to it ... his actions make a difference.
So faithful prayer causes the prayer to be answered? Please share this exciting news on how to perform properly so we may rid the world of starvation, disease, hatred and evil. We are all very intrigued by this method of yours.
Just think once akang explains the proper method the world will be a beautiful place. I am very excited.
Gen6:7
Is it any worse to preach "atheism" than it is to preach "theism"? Shouldn't both respect the other? Isn't the preaching the problem, trying to force your view point on others? I fully accept that people have different needs and are at different stages of their lifes journey and some people need God. I have no desire to deny people the right to believe in a God, if it helps them become a better person, helps them find what they seek. BUT all too often religion helps people become worse people not better people, it reinforces fears and insecurities,encourages them to abdicate responsibility for their actions and for taking action, reinforces prejudices and bigotry. ALL too often religion seems to lead MANY people astray, away from what they claim to be seeking rather than towards it.
Akang and others that think people should try prayer. I think your problem is that you pray. Many have realized, including some Christians and other theists, that the help they need is inside of them and has been there since birth, all they need to do is tap into it. I would like to suggest you try Buddhist meditation as an alternative or try keeping a journal as I do. I am too antsy of a person to sit quietly for any length of time to meditate, probably borderline hyperactive! Instead I keep a journal. If I read a book I write in my journal what I like about it and why or if there is something that bothers me I write what it is that bothers me and why. If something happens during my day with an encounter with other folks I will write about it, analyze it and write what I might have said or done better. When I have a dream, I have taught myself to write it down in as much detail as possible. Non-sensical dreams make sense eventually when you review what you have written over a period of time. There are many alternatives to praying and some far more satisfying and beneficial for me, but that is just my opinion.
"As a human I am not perfect but god often picks up my slack when he sees fit."
Please read this last sentence of your post one more time christiansoldier and explain to us all why your words should be considered anything but ridiculous, absurd, and finally outright dangerous.
God only helps you make people well if he sees fit? God's love according to you then is arbitrary. So if you are having a bad day at work, and god decides to arbitrarily take the day off, your patients die? Your years of medical training, talent and experience matter not?
Please tell me where you practice medicine so I make sure I never send a loved one your way for medical attention.
By the way, I went ahead and corrected the spelling of your name in my post. I assume most cristians would want to get that right.
You are welcome.
By the way, I went ahead and corrected the spelling of your name in my post. I assume most christians would want to get that right.
You are welcome.
That's all fine and usually safe, but who helps you though the things you're too ashamed to admit to? Who helps you when you when you're all alone and it seems like no one cares? Do you know that many once suicidal teens find their lives worth living after inviting Christ into their lives? Christianity is more than just a belief in the creator, it is a belief in forgiveness and life eternAl
So, not content with Jesus-In-Your-Head, you are now peddlin' the cheap godsmack in this barrio? Is your pimp making you trek through atheist sites? As a cult survivor, your post is insulting...The Christian cult creates the disease and offers the cure at a tremendous price...Ask your pimp...I almost took my own life when I was a teen BECAUSE of the Christ-In-My-Life stupidity. I was one of the lucky ones. However, I have family members trapped in the cult so go hustle your dangerous godsmack elsewhere 'cause this barrio is a proselytism-free zone and proselytizing on an atheist site is the digital equivalent of a very analog practice: dumping a massive pile of bible tracts on our doorstep.
If you need help with your addiction and want to quit dealing godsmack to vulnerable teens, Drs. Marlene Winell and Valerie Tarico are great resources for recovery from Christ-In-My-Life. Your pimp won't be happy but there's nothing more liberating than a sentient being gaining the scent of true perspective and refusing to hurt others with Sky Fairyism...Here's the information:
http://www.marlenewinell.net/node/16
If you want to read stories of survival from the godsmack addiction you peddle to minors, read the volumes of testimonies on Exchristian.net.
Did any of you hear about the story of a California fireman who arrived at the scene of a six story apartment fire, who then spent roughly three minutes in his truck, only to have occupants of the building jump to their deaths? What is so disturbing about this was it was more important for the firefighter to download a cd for his boss than to save the lives of those he was sworn to protect.
Every day we come across stories where people are afraid to go out of their way to help others. Maybe we are concerned that we are going to intrude in other’s lives, so we remain still and silent. We most certainly don’t want to offend anyone – right?
Now what if you saw your neighbor’s house on fire, and you heard screaming, would you go out of your way to rescue those inside, or at least call 911? What if you live in the country and the nearest fire department is more than twenty minutes away? What if you witnessed a car accident, and noticed smoke coming from the car, with a screaming baby inside? Would you stop and help or keep driving? Most of us wouldn’t think twice, we would try to save a life.
So now back to the fireman. What do you think this guy deserves: probation from his job, time behind bars, or maybe even capital punishment? I mean let’s face it, because of him people died. His failure to act cost lives. Could you forgive someone like this?
As a Christian I have a responsibility. I am given a job to love others, love them enough that when I recognize that they are in a dire scenario that will ultimately cost them eternal life, I need to intervene. I am reminded that God sent His Son so that all of us can be spared from eternal fire. God LOVES us. He wants to pull His loved ones out of the burning house. In John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only begotten Son that anyone who BELIEVES in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. He is pulling you from the fire. Accept his help. Accept His Love. Accept His Son. Don’t wait until you are surrounded by flames to put out the fire.
consequences,
Your fireman story seems utterly irrelevant to this discussion. We don't even know whether or not he believed in any deity. So, this makes no point either way regarding this topic.
Most of us wouldn't think twice and would try to save a life regardless of religion. What's the point of this one? Also nothing, just like the fireman story.
Seems to me that if your God exists and wants us out of the fire He need simply not put us in it in the first place. What am I missing?
If God loves us then Hell is empty. It doesn't even exist. After all, why in heaven would a loving god create a place of ultimate suffering? It makes no sense. And, it didn't exist in the old testament. It was created with Jesus.
Save your hate for some other site. For, though you call it love, what you actually have is hate for atheists. Else, you would not believe that we would burn in hell for eternity. What more hateful idea could you possibly have in your head than an eternity of pain and suffering and gnashing of teeth. No decent deity would create such a place. If your God has created one, he is worthy of scorn and contempt rather than love and worship.
But, thankfully, no such hatemonger in the sky exists.
I know what to expect when I die. I expect that I will feel exactly as I did a millennium ago. I do not fear death. I do fear the possibility that some religious nut job will pump air through the meat that is currently me long beyond my time. You, on the other hand fear death so strongly that you refuse to believe in it. If you find such delusions of eternal life helpful to you, keep them to yourself. Unlike you, I am enough of an adult to face my fate.
Oh, and to prove that I don't want your delusional vision of an afterlife, I deny the existence of the holy spirit. In fact, the holy spirit can bite me. Though this is not the first time I've said it in hopes of getting a religious nut job off my back, now you know that I am beyond salvation (Mark 3:29).
So please bugger off and have a nice day.
Alright, consequences is back preaching John 3:16 yet again. Maybe you will stick around this time and not just hit and run as seems to be your m.o.
You ask: "Could you forgive someone like this?" Well consequences, according to xtianity if this firefighter believes in jesus and that he died for his sins; jesus will forgive this firefighter and welcome him into your imaginary heaven with open and loving arms. So are you better than your beloved jesus? Do you know better than your jesus? Who are you not to forgive others trespasses? Are you even a xtrian?
Finally, why do you never cite Gn 6:7 - "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." That kind of love sends chills down my spine. How about you?
Hopefully all of us here have someone that we really truly love. Maybe it’s our spouse, or perhaps it is our children, or maybe you are like me and you really love your pet. But what if the one you loved suddenly died? Maybe you have experienced this in your life, then you know firsthand the sadness that comes to us during times like these. For many, these events cause an overwhelming sense of sorrow that can become totally debilitating. Suppose, after you lost the love of your life, people snickered and jeered over your loss, how would that make you feel? Worse yet, how would you feel if they didn’t want to hear about your grief at all?
Most of us here have gone through tragedies. Over the past eight years I have suffered the loss of eight very close family members, including two brothers, my mother in law, three cousins, and two aunts. Not to mention my family pet of seven years. My family also endured the devastating effects of a violent assault that left one of my daughters with kidney failure, my husband being afflicted with IBD, that lead to a diagnosis of diabetes a the eventually led to the end of his employment and the health benefits and income that our family depended on.
Yet, with each of these tragedies I have seen something positive, and at times something miraculous amidst the sorrows. The sudden and tragic loss of my brothers made the rest of my family become proactive with their health care. The loss of my husband’s job allowed us time to improve his health, and enabled us to spend quality time with our children to prepare them for college. It has also allowed us to become advocates on behalf of more than one million Americans who live with the chronic disease and illness that have affected our family. Throughout all of this grief and turmoil, I know one thing is for certain, God has been with me and my family through all of it.
Now back to the point. God also knows about the sense of loss we feel, for he gave up His son, Jesus Christ, for our salvation. When He did, God understood what that decision would cost – the torture and death of His one and only Son. I cannot imagine giving my son to someone who wouldn’t love him back. In fact, I wouldn’t! Denying the love of God by putting His Son on a cross came at a high cost – the rejection of the blessings of God for all eternity, blessings that could only come from God. It would be like being handed a hundred million dollar winning lottery ticket, and instead of experiencing the joy, gratitude and pleasures, you tore the ticket up and then killed the person who offered it to you.
What God did for us is an example of true priceless love. It is giving the thing you love most, to those who don’t wish or care to love you back. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16 I can’t think of anything more real or loving than this.
consequences,
I am truly sorry for your losses as well as quite surprised that diabetes would cost your husband his job. I have diabetes and am not sure what job other than pilot would require a non-diabetic. Your husband's case sounds like a clear case of discrimination.
Regardless, unless you are willing to admit that Jesus is dead, truly dead and gone, a concept foreign to Christianity, it is silly to say that God gave his son for anyone.
Do you not still pray to Jesus? Do you not believe that he is God? If God and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) are one, according to the claim that Christianity is monotheism, then God is Jesus, Jesus is God, and no one gave anything for anyone as both are still alive and in heaven. You don't get to have it both ways, at least not here on a site devoted to reason and rational thinking.
I too have experienced loss. I lost my father and a first cousin last month. I lost my closest friend when both of us were just 27 years old. I have never turned to any god in these events.
If the belief in a deity helps you, fine. It does not help me.
So, why come to an atheist site to preach?
If God is all knowing and all powerful, do you not blame God for your losses? Do you not wonder why your God is so cruel? Were I to believe in God and see what I've seen, which is a fraction of what Blair Scott has seen, I would be paranoid. I would be constantly looking over my shoulder wondering what cruel joke that sick bastard in the sky had in store for me next.
I do not have your ability to imagine good in a God that would act in such a way as to cause so much suffering in the world. For me, atheism is much more comforting. Things happen. Some good; some bad. It is not because some old guy in the sky has it in for me.
The universe is neither cruel nor kind. It does not have such an attribute because it is not intelligent. Therefore, much of what happens, simply happens due to nature's laws. Some of it happens because of human cruelty, such as your loss of health benefits. This is simply the cruelty of voters in the non-civilized society of the United States that refuses to have a single payer health care system like the ones in place in the civilized world.
Back on topic though, I do not fear death; you do not believe in death.
As such, how can you believe Jesus or anyone else has died for anyone?
Just a few questions for consequences:
If God loved us all so much, why did He wait 4,000 years to send his Son to save humanity? Why did he kill all of those innocent men, women, children and animals before he loved us so much? Why not start off the doing this? Why all the killing, slavery, suffering and misery for so long before He graced the world with his only begotten son? Was not Jesus around in the beginning? Does not the gospel of John start by proclaiming " In the beginning was the Word; the Word was in God's presence,"?
So why keep his only begotten Son on the bench for 4,000 years before putting Him in the game? What was Jesus doing for those 4,000 years? Did Jesus ever talk with his Dad and say, 'you know what your going to do to me, so why not do it now?' I do not understand. I cannot make sense of this?
God knows everything I am told, so it seems apparent to me He should have seen this coming. Why the wait?
Alternative religions include
Alternative religions include a very wide range of movements, many of which have very little in common with each other except for their minority status.-Missed Fortune
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