NoGodBlog.com

Congrats to Dina on this! Certainly takes some nerve to come out in such a big way.

The stats are depressing, though. :( Something we'll just have to work on.

I give credit to my editor, a self-described born-again Christian, for printing the whole thing with no significant edits.

This speaks volumes...obviously your editor isn't as fearful of having an atheist on his(her) staff as an atheist would be of having a born again Christian on theirs. I wonder how many born again Christians would be hired at AA...?

It also shows amazing tolerance from your editor. Maybe if atheists were as tolerant of believers the poll numbers might change...

By the way...a well written article...

Three Cheers for Dina......


I work in the Basement of a Catholic Church.....its called Alumni Hall, Niagara University....Niagara University is a Catholic University offering Education up to graduate level....

In the basement of Alumni is an Army ROTC Program....we have 3 cadets that are atheists in the program....sometimes when we are together we form a majority...Who Ra...

Be Proud, Be an Atheist

Great job Dina!

That took guts and the piece was well-written.
Give us an update on how the response goes.

Karen....

Are you still in Buffalo ??

Charlie
Hehe.
No, I'm awake now.

Darn

I read an earlier post from you an thought you where shuffling off....I was hoping to possibly meeting the Great Karen from no god blog....

Phreedm:

"This speaks volumes..." How? Please explain. Does being open-minded and respectful of others' beliefs instead of shooting them speaks volumes? Is it because it is so against the norm for Jesus freaks to be accepting of differing phylosophies and points of views? Doesn't that betray the core of your skewed beliefs and MO?

"Obviously your editor isn't as fearful of having an atheist on his(her) staff as an atheist would be of having a born again Christian on theirs." Obviously, you're thinking of all the people who have been burned at the stake, stoned to death or hung for their beliefs...Oh, no, wait! I got that backwards, it was non-believers that got the short-end of that stick and not all the way around!

"I wonder how many born again Christians would be hired at AA...?" Considering that AA (or did you mean to say AAA?) is the brainchild of a child-molesting Catholic priest and that the "cure" revolves around a "higher power" adn the meetings often take place in churches, me thinks, it would be overriden, overtaken, overrun and overpowered by Jesus Freaks.

How sad is it that someone's declaration of Atheism - something which is every human being's inherent right - has to be considered corageous and gutsy and a big deal? What does that say about you religious nuts? Huh, Phreedm?

Once again, Phreedm, THINK! Really, it doesn't hurt and the only people that have been reported to die from thinking met their fate at the hands of those like you! I have complete confidence that YOU can fool them!



"I love Christians. They taste like chicken!"

Charlie
Thanks for the compliment. Sorry to disappoint, but shuffling off was just a reference to going to bed. When I was a kid, and my dad sent me to bed, he would say, "Okay, shuffle off to Buffalo, Kiddo". And I would scuff along in my fuzzy pink slippers.

If I'm ever really going to Buffalo though, I'll let you know! :-)

Phreed:

I wonder how many born again Christians would be hired at AA...?

By AA, I assume you mean American Atheists...

And there's quite a difference between working under someone of a different faith (or no faith at all) at a non-religious workplace than at one that is particularly charged with religious tension. I'm sure that if a well-qualified born again applied for a position, and withheld the preaching, that they would be considered.

Ellie:

Shit! I just assumed AA was Alcoholic Anonymus...LMAO!!!



"It's easy to be open-minded when you're one of the things most people don't believe in."

Dina that was a very brave and amazing thing you did! Atheists need to come out of the closet in droves and declare our lack of a god delusion so that people can see that we are not evil but are among their loved ones and neighbours. Visibility equals power!

Darwin:

Shit! I just assumed AA was Alcoholic Anonymus...LMAO!!!

You know what Alcoholics Anonymous thinks of Christians... ain't got much use for them except for the whole meeting space thing...

I know, I thought it, too. Those acronyms are tricky like that. ;)

I don't understand much about this "coming out" business because I never had any problem.

Here is a good xian road movie.

http://www.broadcaster.com/video/player.php?clip=6679

BTW, I think it is rather unfair that the title article has a clickable link, but the answers don't.

CITW, you are delusional.

The bible is null and void.

We fear not the 'lord'. The 'lord' DOES NOT EXIST.

CITW:
And here's YOUR sign -

Great column Dina. More than I usually expect from the local paper ! Maybe, just maybe it will make one person think!

Does it never end?!

Why don't fundies get it that the bible does not work as a conversion tool--?!

CitW: The Ark story is one of the most ridiculous of all biblical myths. If you think its going to convert anyone here, you need to seek some professional counseling.

Holly Righteous Bull Dung....



CITW isn't engaging on any level it seems.....its not CITW's fault....probably brain washed at an early age....maybe one day CITW may entertain the idea of going to hell...booo !!!

we can only hope

I'm surprised your using a quote about Noah when there are many "believers" who think its more symbolic than actually true. At any rate, I think we should turn the tables and all the Atheists go post our views on some Christian sites. We can quote the bible too and point out everything that is unbelievable... wait, that would take forever. But seriously, why come here and preach... NOBODY wants to hear that crap.

Not only does nobody want to hear that crap, but that crap is not even serving the purpose I'm sure its poster has intended.

Useless and aggravating.

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listen to advice.

How true.
WARNING! Christians, DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME or AT CHURCH! You may stop believing in your fairy tales.

OK, OK, Citw.

If god tells me to build an ark, I'll do it. Happy now?

(I really hope there's gonna be a Lowe's or Home Depot gift card in the deal.)

hillbilly

Nuh-uh-uh! You've gotta do it the way Noah did it. No pre-cut planks or power tools! You'll ave to fell the trees, debark them, saw them, sand them, fit them, shape them, interlock them w/o nails.
But no sweat, you'll have 7 whole days! And you won't have to tow the boat...the water's gonna come to you.
Don't forget to videotape it for us!

Christ is the way:
I'm surprised you haven't slapped out Psalms 14:1.
Man, I'm getting righteously sick of 'jay-sus is the WAY'.
Here's a newsflash: we're ALL aware of what the bibble says, we're NOT a bunch of lost little teenie-boppers (no offense to anyone underage), we've heard ALL of this folderol before (ad nauseum, no less).
In short: not new, not novel, no epiphanies forthcoming.
What works w/wide-eyed sheeple cuts zero ice here.
Keep up the preachy posts, and you'll be SOR-RY.

karen:

But no sweat, you'll have 7 whole days!

I can do it in 6, I wanna sleep in on the 7th.

KA
My HERO!
(I LOVE sleeping in!)
;-)

Thanks to everyone for the good words about my article (and even to phreedm for saying it was well written!) I'm happy to say that thus far I have received 10 emails in response, and ALL of them have been positive. Most have been from atheists, a couple agnostics, one unitarian. I still expect to get some nasty-grams in the coming days, but maybe not as many as I had initially feared, since my article was really about defending athiests, and not about defending atheism, which is what really seems to get the Christians mad.

Dina Appleby

Dina, have you gotten any emails from CiTW? You'll be able to recognize them, because it'll just be versus from the bible that we're supposed to read and by all like "wow, what the hell was I thinking all these years" and poof! be reborn. Let me give it a try:

Exodus 21: 20-21 And if a man smite his slave or his slavegirl with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished: Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.

"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30

"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18

"... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4

"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10

wait....maybe I'm not doing it right.

Dangerman

Your post didn't make me see the light, but it almost made me pee my pants!
Still LOL.

Heya Hillbilly, wanna borrow some cubits??

christ is the way- which church do you point us to since there are 10,000 diff.types.they all can't be right.which set of ten commandments
to follow jewish,catholic or protestant.which bible catholic or protestant.have you taken a vow of poverty, forsaken your family to follow christ if not you are a hypocrite.jesus condemned those who made a public show of their religion.

Off the topic, but interesting...



Indiana is now offering two license plates:

One reads, "In God We Trust" and the other, "Choose Life."

Seeker? Is this the 'isness' fellow?
Long time no viddy, droog, how goes it? (Clockwork Orange).

seeker aka ebonyfax? Interesting about the license plates.

is is

Christ is in the Way:

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline." Proverbs 1:17 - Would you look at that? Even your own gawd is calling you freaks stupid!

"Why must man fear the Lord?" Speak for yourself! Not every man - or woman for that matter - fears something that doesn't exist.

"His strength and power is beyond anything ever seen or heard on earth." Bingo! BTW, the operative words here are EVER SEEN OR HEARD...Also, if your gawd is so strong, how much can he bench?

"So, why must you fear the lord? God is just He sees all your deeds, good and evil. God will hold you accountable for everything you do, He will judge you accordingly." You're so right, gawd sees you masturbate, gawd sees you pee, gawd sees you nekkid, gawd sees you wipe your ass, gawd sees you staring at the neighbor's wife's ass, gawd sees you pick your nose and so much more!




"My god wilds a hammer; yours was nailed to a cross. Any questions?"

OK so.....totaly off topic but wtf


DA BEARS!!!!!!!!!

goin too miami....woo hooo!!!!!

GOIN TO MIAMI!!!!!!!!


SORRY DAVE I HOPE WE GET TO KICK NE'S ASS AGAIN BUT IT'S NOT LOOKIN TOO GOOD FOR THE THE PATS!!

But there is 1:00 left.



Bilge

Looks like god fails you again!!!




DA BEARS!!!!!!!!




Bilge!!

I am goin any atheist want to join me???

Christ is in the Way:

"The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listen to advice. Proverbs 12:15 - Again, see your gawd keeps calling you stupid but you don't listen too good, do ya?

God commanded Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because i have found you righteous in this generation."

"And Noah did all that the Lord commanded him" Genesis 7:5. Noah listened and obeyed and with his wife, a 25-year old curvy blonde that Noah prounced around with as arm candy, he went into the Ark and, to their surprise, found a sign hanging on the back wall that said "Made in Taiwan."

WHAT IS RIGHT TO YOU MAY NOT ALWAYS BE RIGHT FOR YOU. I agree, for example, French fries, hamburgers, chocolate ice cream, cheesecake, staring at your neighbor's wife's breasts, etc. etc.


"Christianity has Pagan DNA."

Comment from: elliejay

I'm sure that if a well-qualified born again applied for a position, and withheld the preaching, that they would be considered.

Hahaha...how funny. Now who's believing in a myth...? Wow, talk about being blind...

You're all a bunch of heathens! Except maybe you, spanders.

Keep up the good work.

Dangerman:

You should go to this site and do your handywork there: http://www.mzla.com/bible/

Here are some examples of what has been done so far (This is Genesis 1:1, 1:2 and 1:3):

1:In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.

2:The Earth was just a bunch of water, which was kind of cool. God went surfing for awhile before resuming his deity duties.

3:God, deciding that surfing wasn't much fun in the darkness, said 'Hocus pocus,' and there was light.

I laugh to tears every time I go there (which is often).



"I bet my patronus is bigger than yours!"

Hey, Phreedm:

How does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot, huh?




"Don’t piss me off. I have way more gods than you!"

Comment from: Dangerman

wait....maybe I'm not doing it right.

Hmmmm....you could say that

Dina

Thanks for coming out. I think there are about 14 percent nonbelievers in the USA. Much much higher in European countries.
You have far more company than you think.

Thanks again!

****OFF TOPIC****

Sorry but I couldn't resist sharing this. I was sinning over at the Bible Re-Write project and found this thing:

Exodus, 39:23 - And there was an hole in the midst of the robe, as the hole of an habergeon, with a band round about the hole, that it should not rend.

I changed it to:

And there was a hole in the midst of the robe, where his erect pennis protruded, and he put a yellow ribbon around it in support of the troops.

Waa haa...I kill myself!!! I hope the Jesus Freaks like my version!!!




"I feel like I’ve been mauled by Jesus."

Darwin Loves the Colts, God loves the Pats... nuff said. :)

Phreedm is projecting again. We are condemned because if he were making the hiring decision he knows what he would do. Actually what he is up to is goalpost shifting, or comparing apples to oranges.

The newspaper is supposed to present a balance of information and opinions that are of interest to all its readers. It would be no surprise at all if an atheist editor had people writing articles with a religious slant. It must happen many times a day.

Special interest organisations have in the past been granted the right to discriminate in their hiring. How strange it would be for an openly atheist person to apply for and win a position in a religious publications house, for example. Crazy, in fact.

Without imagining special circumstances, like the editor actually wants use an opposing viewpoint to generate controversy and increase circulation, it would be a very unusual situation that could easily become unpleasant for all.

Our favourite troll is slipping a little. I've seen better from him.

Phreedum,
I would not knowingly hire an overtly religious person. There I said it. I wouldn't be comfortable around the person so why would I set myself up for an uncomfortable situation in my workplace? I would also support a business owner's decision to not hire a gay atheist such as myself because I believe strongly in the rights of entrepeneurs to run their business the way they see fit. However if it was a manager making the call who worked for a company which had a non discrimination policy then you better bet I would fight it.

Touche phreedm, I'll admit that was actually a decent comeback.

I went to that site, darwinluvsu, and it is freaking hilarious.

DD-
took the words right out of my mouth...or typed them right off of my hands...:/ Anyways, you can't say that it's intolerant of us not to appoint a fundie to AA, because what fundie in their right mind (oooo, oximoron) would apply for a job at AA?!?!!? That like me walking up to a church and wanting to become a preacher. I would bet you money that I wouldn't get the job, and not because of intolerance, but because I don't meet the requirements.

wow...sorry about that. I meant to type: That's like me walking up to a church and wanting to become a preacher.

lol...DANGERMAN SPEAK GOODLY!

"obviously your editor isn't as fearful of having an atheist on his(her) staff as an atheist would be of having a born again Christian on theirs."

Newspaper (apple), AA (orange). Any questions?

I should have read DD Dropout's post before making my last post. Oh well, "great minds" and all that.

And now a word for our fundamentalist friends...

According to Genesis 2:14 the river that flowed out of Eden “parted and became into four” rivers. The fourth of these rivers was the mighty Euphrates. From this geographical description we can identify Eden’s general location. The passage also identifies the first river as being “Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold.” And “the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.”

Here’s the glitch. Note that the writer uses past tense when describing the rivers, indicating that they existed at the time Adam lived in Eden (Genesis 2:10). Then, notice the writer continues to describe the same rivers and their surroundings in present tense (Genesis 2:12). They still existed at the time of writing, thousands of years after the Adam was expelled from Eden.

Specifically, note the writer’s phrase in reference to the river Gihon: “the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.” Nothing had changed from the time of Eden to the time of writing. It was the same. The geography changed little during that interim time.

During that interim a universal flood covered the entire planet. The likelihood of the four rivers re-emerging in the same general locations as plainly stated by the writer is virtually impossible. In fact, some Christian fundamentalists make much ado about the dramatic change in the earth’s surface, claiming that mountains, as we know them today, didn’t exist prior to the flood. They point to fossilized fish found atop mountains as evidence for their claims.

Fundamentalists are left in the awkward position of explaining the inconsistency.

Plus the whole idea that fossils take millions of years to form, and that flood thingy was quite a bit younger than that. Don't really see how you can say the earth is a few thousand years old, then use million year old fossil as proof.

Seeker:

"Fundamentalists are left in the awkward position of explaining the inconsistency."

In my experience, when the right-wingnuts are faced with inconsistencies like that, they simply reply: "You have to have faith" or "you offend me" and move on with their eyes wide shut...Ha ha ha...



"My boss is a Norse electrician."

From the article:

I try to teach my children right from wrong with a simple principle that most Christians will recognize. "How would you like it if Johnny took all the toy trucks and wouldn't share them with you?" It's not as eloquent as "do unto others," but the message is the same and it gets the point across.

When it comes to solitary offenses, such as cheating on a test, I rely on my own honor and values. Truth and honesty are the values I try to teach my children, through words and example. I want others to see me as an honest person, and thus I make the decision not to cheat.

As I have two young childeren (6 yr and 2.5 yr) I found this very interesting. I have been an atheist for many years now (long before my daughters were born) and have been raising them without religion.
On one side, there is no "don't do that or baby jebus will cry" card I can throw at them when they misbehave. We have to instill values on them in a more human way.

Two instances come to mind as to how our progress is coming along. When my youngest was around 2 yr old and only able to speak a few words, my two daughters had received helium balloons from a local grocery store.
After we got home, the balloon for my oldest daughter came untied and floated up to the vaulted ceiling. Of course, fearing her balloon was gone forever, she cried. My youngest saw her crying and came over and gave up her own balloon with the simple words "Here sissy".
There was compassion without being taught. This is the same 2 yr old who does not understand sharing enough to share her toys but understands compassion.

The other instance was when my oldest first entered school and was studying for a spelling test. As we went down the words, I tried to find ways to help her remember the spelling. One example was that I had noticed that all the spelling words that contains the letter "L" had two.
I told her that for this test, if there was an "L" sound that she simply had to remember to write two "L"s. She said she didn't want to do that because it would be cheating. This comes from a little girl who does not have to answer to jebus, but did not want to cheat because she knew cheating was wrong.

Oh cool, Seeker's back! :)

Well done, Dina! You're an inspiration to all of us. The more of us who "come out," the more society will get to know and love us. (How could they help it?? We're such a loveable bunch!!)

Forbes.com published today an excellent news article titled "Why do good? Brain study offers clues" http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/health/feeds/hscout/2007/01/22/hscout601147.html addressing the "do unto others" Bable falacy. Although the results of the study are inconclusive, it could put an end to the stupid argument that "the Bable says...the Bable says..." crap by showing that right and wrong is a physiological trait. I have always believed that people are either born knowing right from wrong or are not and, those in the latter category, cannot be taught no matter how hard one tries and an archaic fantasy book sure as hell ain't gonna teach them morality!




"I don’t need fear of a god to be decent to others."

darwinluvsu

In my experience, when the right-wingnuts are faced with inconsistencies like that, they simply reply: "You have to have faith" or "you offend me" and move on with their eyes wide shut...Ha ha ha...

In my experience they tend to say something to the effect of "you're taking it out of context" (isn't the Bible, with its concise and spartan story structures and compartmentalized verses, seemingly designed to be taken out of context?) or "you're not looking at the big picture," the later resulting in another demonstration of forcibly post-hoc, tortured reasoning.

Rainbows:

I cracked up a while back when a freak said to me (something to the effect of): "I just can't believe that we evolved the way they say from nothing. It doesn't make sense." So, I said to the dude, "yet you can believe that "gawd" wipped the world out of his hat in seven days." End of conversation!

Last night, another one said to me, "What happened to you? Something must have happened to you in order for you to be that way!" (As if it were a bad thing!) So, I looked him straight in the eye and said, "Yes, I was born right the first time!" No come back!

It never ceases to amaze me how they're spoonfed a script and, the moment you say something smart and unexpected, they're dumbfounded and have no come back. No doubt, these freaks went running to their churches and spent the next week or so praying for me!!! :-)

As far as that babbling book, lemme tell you, that's one psychodelic bullshit story! I never got into that crap but the Bible Re-Write project is, in a very fun way, a very educational experience.

Man, oh, man! I loath these freaks and their stupidity!



"When it comes to thought, some people will stop at nothing."

Congratulations, Dina

(in a sing-song voice) "...comin' out is hard to do.."

I guess I'm sort of lucky that I've never really had to "out" myself as an atheist. What was harder was experiencing the response(s) from some of those Christian friends and family who had known me back when I was an ardent "believer". Their expressed shock, sadness, incredulity, etc. at my "losing faith" was emotionally gut-wrenching for me at times, and I usually had to reassure them that I was fine, that I was happy, that No, Satan hadn't taken control of me, and so on and so forth.

These days my friends and family are for the most part fully aware and accepting (albeit grudgingly, perhaps) of my full rejection of religious hogwash and my disdain for belief in all things supernaturalistic. They're accepting because they can see with their own eyes that I'm getting along quite well without God or religion, thank you very much, and many of them even admire my outspoken views on the various important issues of the day, such as politics, social justice, etc.

So being an open atheist isn't really such an uphill grind, but it is a daily task in a sense, to be sure.

I do confess I've not had to endure "hate mail" to speak of, but I suppose that's mostly because I'm not much in the public eye.

Carry forth, Dina. You have friends.

I love how "Christ is the Way" continuously uses bible quotes as arguments - oblivious to the fact that, here, he might as well be using Harry Potter quotes. In fact, I think I'll start that right now. At least we'll all have something MILDLY INTERESTING to read.

"That's what Hermione does. When it doubt, go to the library" - Ron Weasley

The way you talk (write), you'd think that you constantly surround yourself with all these freaks and their gross stupidity. Don't you have anything better to do than to harass and heckle those ignorant dudes. With your fantastic intellegence and amiable persuasion, you might win a few over. After all, we have a long way to go if we want to get a few more on our side. We're only abour 5% of the population and there about 87%. It seems as though they're a little more rational in their structure and we are based on our own self assurance and contempt for those idiots! Maybe we should rethink our agenda.

Ah, young Jocum, you forget one thing:

"It unscrews the other way" - Minerva McGonagall

Regarding hiring a fundie to work at AA:

In my opinion, the religion of an employee doesn't matter, and it won't matter, unless that employee makes it an issue. If a fundamentalist goes into a new job at AA and leaves religion at home LIKE THEY SHOULD, then the issue won't even arise.

There's no good reason to get into religious debates at work. I can see how there might be a few positions in which religion WOULD be discussed AS PART OF THE JOB, but participating in these discussions in a way that's productive towards the company's goals would be pretty well against the religion of said fundamentalist, anyway.

If they have a job as a desk worker or are lending a hand with some marketing, there's no reason their religion would even have to come into the picture.

If I were hiring, for ANY company, I would be wary of anyone who is extremely outspoken about their religion at the interview-- and that's not just because I differ from them. It's because there's no reason for things that personal to be discussed at work.

Why a fundamentalist would WANT to work for AA is beyond me, but if we're talking in purely theoretical terms, so be it.

Ooh, Darwin! I hadn't seen the re-write project before. It's amazing! I've contributed a few gems already.

Now I have a new way to waste time at work.

Ellie:

My sentiment is exactly the same! I love that site - it's a real gem - and it saves me from the drudgery of an office overrun with Jesus Freaks; would it be appropriate to say it's a gawd sent? he he...(BTW, what you described above is my situation at work.)



"Bullshit beats brains."

follow the law.don't discriminate against religious or nonreligious.

Atheist’s Lament
Thoughts of Gary Barker
Feb. 2007

If I were the only person on the planet who believed that:

-the creator of the universe, after creating all other life on the earth, created the first human out of mud
-created the second human from a rib from that first human
-breathed divine breath into them that included something special called a soul
-built in a couple of flaws including a susceptibility to temptation and a hankering for Apple's
-plopped them down in the middle of a garden full of temptation and, surprise-surprise, an apple tree
-and waited to see what would happen in spite of the fact that being omniscient he knew what would happen
-and when they predictably succumbed to temptation he built into them, he damned them forever
-and damned all of their descendants forever
-who allowed them to go forth and multiply anyway
-who, after several generations saw that things were not going well and ordered that adulterers be stoned to death
-that children who talked back to their parents to be stoned to death
-that homosexuals be stoned to death
-that girls who were not virgins on their wedding night be stoned to death
-that anyone who worked on his sacred day, the Sabbath, be stoned to death
-and anyone worshiping graven images, ESPECIALLY them, be stoned to death
-and after seeing that this was not working either, began to wipe out entire villages if one person did any of the above
-and after seeing that this was not working either, decided to wipe them all out with a flood save for two of everything
-and after letting them repopulate and seeing that it was still not going well (so much for His skill at creation) decided to stop screwing around and send an envoy down in the form of his son or come down himself in the guise of his son (we are not quite sure about this)
-who seeded himself in the uterus of a virginal Middle Eastern Jewish girl
-who was born the ordinary way
-who grew up to be a common Carpenter
-who preached peace and love (and for slaves to be good to their masters)
-who performed a few various and sundry miracles along the way
-who, after many years of doing this developed a hard-core cult following of exactly 12 (and some of these were sort of iffy)
-who was also noticed by the powers that be and executed along with several other criminals of the day
-who cheated death and arose from his tomb after three days
-who walked around on the earth for another nine days or so
-who then literally ascended into the sky with the promise to return after another 1000 years of really bad stuff happening to select humans who would re-ascend with him into the sky or would be condemned to the underworld (Judgment Day)
-and a century or so later, he (it, they?) commissioned a committee of humans to write all of this down in a book
-and that the committee couldn't put all of the separate writings in so they voted on which ones to include
-and that this book is the literal word of the creator of the universe
-and that I know that it is the literal word of the creator of the universe because the book itself says so
-and that anyone who does not believe it's every "jot and tittle" will burn in a really bad place forever
-and that I can now talk to the creator of the universe or his son (or him in the guise of his son), either out loud or just in my head and he/it/they will hear me and respond to me
-and that if I were of a particular sect I could eat a cracker and sip wine and know that I was literally eating the body and drinking the blood of the son of the creator of the universe (or the actual creator of the universe himself)

If I were the only person on the planet to believe the above, I would be certifiably insane and would be justifiably locked up.
But now that there are over a billion people who believe the above, there is safety in numbers. Anyone who believes the above today is not only considered not insane, but is considered to be perfectly normal and even admired and respected for such beliefs.
In fact, the tables have been turned and those who do NOT believe the above in cultures where it is the dominant belief are considered by many to be lower than sexual deviants and violent criminals and are to be feared and shunned.

Only religion, blind faith without evidence, could produce such a state of affairs.

I have never been so proud of my son as when he told his little brother, "Don't listen to thise people, it's just a god scam." What kind of twisted person does that make me? Not for being proud of him, but because writing that made me so uncomfortable. I was proud of my son, not for following in my footsteps as an atheist, but because he was thinking for himself. He did care what other people thought. In his six years, he figured out, that if it sounds too good to be true, it is. Something that us adults all know, but somehow do not have the same perspective on christianity. Everything about it, falls into "too good to be true." My luthern sister has taught my youngest son that if you do wrong and apologize to god, all is forgiven. How is that something has become so much a part of our very being that it took a six year skeptict to lead the way. I see, now that I am thirty, that what I always thought was ridiculous, truly is.

In response to Dina's "Coming Out"; I came out over 40 years ago. I received a bigoted response from my local "union Brothers" who said"how can you expect us to help you ? your not Christian.The company reps did not like me passing my philosophy's around to the young workers. I didn't last long there after my coming out. I did learn eventually to keep my big mouth shut till this day. Going on 70, still an Atheist. By the way, my spell correcter capped Christian but not atheist.jim

I don't want to mention this because it upset me a bit to know that George Bush doesn't go to church. Charles Darwin went to church more often than Me and Bush combine. George Bush claims to be a religious person yet he doesn't attend church only on election years for himself to prove his a good christian. When he isn't running,, he becomes athiest or muslim. He makes us look bad and brings the word hypocrite to a new level. It makes you wonder It would seeme to me that a religious person who go to church or ask God to give him guidance unless Cheney is his god or Mohammad.Maybe his god is oil or money since he is so willing to sell out his country for money by letting foreign banks bail out our real estate failures. He seems to be blaming everything on a myth. That it is god's will or Cheney's . why is he so eager to convince everyone he is christian, when he is not? Is he trying to make everyone a muslim or a athiest, he is doing a very good job of it by blaming his god. Or is he really trying to prove that there is no god except Cheney? If you can call Cheney one.

I don't like being afraid of fundamentalists' paranoia. It is their fear that we are afraid of. It is my belief that we are the sane ones in an insane world of myth believers. We shouldn't have to worry about saying what we think while the out of touch with reality believers can all talk about their beliefs all the time. I wish there was a way for us to signal every chance we get that there is no God the way that athletes do looking up to "heaven" or whatnot. When I quit believing there was such a sense of fear instilled in me that I got scared sometimes. Now all doubt about the no-existence of God is over I feel okay about telling people that I am atheist. I feel awkward because I have been a hypocrite by pretending to believe when I really didn't though I never really proclaimed my belief the way true hypocrites do. But I really don't need to worry about all the ignorant people but just be glad really that I have freed myself from the delusion.

douglasinphily,

This is an old thread, so you might not get much response (and if you reply back to this, I might miss it).

That said:

It is my belief that we are the sane ones in an insane world of myth believers.

It certainly feels that way doesn't it? Religious people can be exasperating even on a slow day.

But I really don't need to worry about all the ignorant people but just be glad really that I have freed myself from the delusion.

I really wish I could agree with this, but a minority of religious people have a nasty habit of writing laws and banding together to snuff out atheism whenever they see it. I think religion is something we need to worry about.

Wherever religion is doing harm, it needs to be pointed out and argued against. I know that people resist to this, but reality is more important than fantasy. Since humanity isn't willing to open it's own eyes, we may need to do it ourselves. I wish there were an easier way of doing that than being a pariah, but that doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon.

What could you say to someone that could change their views on the workings of the universe if they are willing to discard the greatest minds on the planet? Answer... nothing. There is no proof, no smoking gun, nothing that can be said or done that is going to change their minds. If someone is willing to believe something they were told as a child and dismiss what they are being told by scientists then you are wasting your breath talking sense.
Yet, as atheist, we devote much of our energy attempting to convert the believers. Would you spend time trying to convince someone the world is round? Now, I'm a realist, and understand the impact of religion in the world. But deeper than that, I'm a humantist that believes the only real legacy we will have is our ability to pass on knowledge through the ages. And, having stated that fact, I too feel the desire to insure accurate information is passed on.
I suspect, however, most of us are motivated to convert others so we don't feel alienated. As suggested simply by the terminology "coming out", we associate all the emotions of acceptance, denial, desertion, relief, etc.. People "come out" to get something off their chest, to stop living a lie. And when they are comfortable enough with whatever belief is at hand, they crusade forward with the "coming out" process.
I propose I new plan, for all of us. Somehow, the onus has been placed on us. And as stated previously, it is unattainable. We can't prove, anymore than we already have, the workings of the universe. And simply, the process of "coming out" proves the ball is in our court. So the plan, put it back in theirs. Don't buy into their game plan. You don't have to "come out". Believe what you believe, always.
We have many great minds in our likes. We have Harris, Dawkins, Dennett, Maher, Hitchens, Shermer and many more. Yet, we have failed at a simple game plan. I attended a skeptic meeting where Shermer talked about a plan that included the term "Brights" to, I suppose, unite atheists (Shermer did not endorse the view). Dawkins has had a good run with The God Delusion and has been getting air time. Maher is a weekly stalwart ranting against religion. This is the same old, failed, game plan. Are we hoping now, 2000 plus years into this, we can talk sense into them? It's not going to happen.
I suggest we develop a new plan. Now, don't get me wrong, I love all the aforementioned people. And I think they are needed as figures for us, but not for the believers. These people make us feel good but they don't make the believers feel good. And they don't make the believers challenge their own thoughts, they invoke a defensive mindset when engaging the religious.
The plan is simple in nature. Just live your life. Don't get wrapped up in the debates. Don't attempt to convert anyone. A true conversion will only take place when the person gets there on their own. Don't initiate religious conversations. Simply put, lead by example. Don't avoid stating who you are, what you believe when asked, just don't volunteer it. When asked about your beliefs, state them. Don't offend, don't attack, don't judge. State them, be confident and leave the topic. If they want to tell you what they believe, listen. When they're done explaining their views on God smile and tell them what a wonderful country we live in that they have the right to believe that. And end it there. I promise you, it will bother them more than it will bother you. If every one of us were confident, polite, and peaceful we would gain ground.
The ball would end up in their court. If for no other reason, they would have to produce a new game plan. If 20, 30, 40% of the population was atheist, comfortable with it, and did not discuss religion with the religious, the believers would be forced to act. Their doctrine insures this.
When we fought the Revolutionary War we engaged in tactics that were revolutionary as well. Instead of lining up on the battlefield, squaring off with the foe, and duking it out, like all the wars before, we designed new tactics. Did we do this because we thought it would be fun? No. We did it because fighting the battle in the same old fashion would result in a loss. It was a numbers game. Let's not just line up and get shot down by the masses.
What I invision is a tactic that does force our believer friends to think. Of course, we need our leaders, the ones that make us feel grounded. They inspire us. But it is the true masses that will fight the battle. Let's unite, fight the battle in a peaceful manner, and pass on accurate knowledge to future generations. Peace all.

Bluberry,

It is good that you are thinking about what should be done to bring sense to a nation that is mostly senseless. However, your plan has been tried before, in fact, I think it is the plan that a fair number of atheists continue to use but, it didn't work and it is unlikely to work now.

Although the christian tries to make people believe that it is a sweet little lamb, the truth is that it will walk on any one that does not oppose it.

You should realize that the christian is intent upon making the United States a theocracy (if you don't, do some research and compare with the facts of the christian push into public schools and government at all levels). At this point, the christian goal is that you do not oppose them.

Additionally, you should realize that most of the christians that are doing the pushing are also intent on fulfilling their end time agenda, which in effect is to render the earth uninhabitable.

I am not trying to convert christians away from their mythology although, it is fine if they decide to drop the deception and live their lives based on reality and reason. What I want is for the christian to stop forcing their mythology on others and to stop their disgusting actions.

The christian wants what you are doing, I won't be giving it to them.

To rna2dna,
I completely agree with you. And I'm confident they would have a theocracy if allowed. But we do have a Constitution. Now we can discuss if we, as a nation, adhere to that Constitution, specifically the seperation of church and state, but it is in place. So, as an atheist, there is nothing you need to do in the name of atheism to fight against religion. As an American, you might feel the need to fight for your Constitution.
The religious actually fight their fight in the name of religion. When we discuss laws, ammendments, etc.. the religious actually have no qualms with saying it's in the name of God. Therefore, we don't need to step up to the plate, as atheist. Indeed, we need a call to arms, but hopefully, even some deep thinking believers can see the danger in mixing church and state and rallying to our cause. When we take on the issue from an atheist slant, we alienate the religious believers that agree with our stance.
I feel your frustation. And I think it is embarassing, as an American, that religion rules this country. But the fact is, they have the numbers. And, given their proven reasoning skills, there is no point in fighting the battle on their terms. As long as they can always find faith in the mass percentage of people that believe their same, or similar, mythology then we can't fight the battle on their turf.
Again, as I have stated in the previous post, we do need our atheist leaders. Perhaps, it is necessary for some of our intellects to ruffle some feathers. But I contend we will all be better served if we fight on the merits which require no affliation with theism or atheism. I'm not suggesting that you or I hide our atheism, quite the contrary, just no need to fight in the name of it. I don't want the religious to argue he's fighting this in the name of atheism. At best, they should be able to claim he's fighting this AND he's an atheist. Look forward to further dialogue. Peace and happiness.

Um is there a way that I can come out as being atheist without getting hurt by people. I'm 14 years old.

atheistgoth14

Coming out at 14 can be very difficult, especially if your family doesn't support you. Take a look at this article by Dave Silverman on Coming Out on the American Atheists website, and you may find that you want to measure your steps a bit.

http://www.atheists.org/comingout/othercloset.html

Congratulations on being a rational thinker! We are always glad to see young people using their minds for themselves instead of blindly following dogma. But take care, as you are still a dependent person. Good luck!

ag14;
Hang in there, but be careful as to whom you reveal yourself.