NoGodBlog.com

I love hypocrites. It makes it so easy to be an athiest.

Is anyine surprised at this or any of the other catholic priest sex scandals? The repression of natural human sexuality is a dangerous thing.

Nope. Not surprised at all. This is why the priests usually select impressionable youngsters who submit to authority.

"Our Lady of Las Vega$"? Do they have slot machines instead of donation plates?

I think the key point here is, "...before he confessed".
Why be good if one has a Get Out of Hell Free Card?

You are right. I am not surprised.

they believe may have

He "may have"...but a simple accusation is all that's needed to condemn...

Wow...am I glad you're not on my team...so much for being innocent until being proven to be guilty...

Your hatred for the catholic church is amazing...I've said it before and I'll say it again...something happened in your life to create such hostilities...

Now as for your attempt to understand christian theology...you should spend more time studying it before you attempt to understand it...I'm always amazed at non-believers who talk about the bible as if they understood it's content...

Now as for your attempt to understand christian theology...you should spend more time studying it before you attempt to understand it...I'm always amazed at non-believers who talk about the bible as if they understood it's content

I have observed that most of the people on this blog (with the notable exception of some xians) have a thorough understanding of a wide variety of xian theology. It is that majority of theists who rely on a few "experts" who ought to read the vile and vulgar writing antithetically referred to as the Good Book.

Is the preist is so innocent phreedm then where is he? It's his church, so don't you think he'd be a little concerned about the wellfare of his employees? I think I'd rather have him guilty and on the run than innocent and apathetic.

It remains an enduring mystery how any thinking human could read even a portion of the bible and still believe.

Then there is that man in Florida who claims to be the second coming; claims to be Jesus. He has followers, he HAS followers, who give him cars and property. I would not have thought this possible, but my incredulity illustrates that my understanding of human behaviour is indeed lacking. It also punctuates the fact that reasoning with someone of phreddy's intellectual acumen is beyond futile.

wait...jesus is here? why wasn't I told?!

Well yes, if one has the intelligence to recognize a middle aged Puerto Rican as the Prince of Peas.

see:
http://gods4suckers.net/
Posted by stardust on Jan. 25

Speaking of Peas, I have a great recipe for Give Peas A Chance Salad. Oftentimes the best things of life are overlooked and the recipe books for successful and happy palattes aren't even consulted! No wonder so many people starve for truth, the finer things, what is wholesome, nutricious, satisfying, and even for what is really good for them. You know what they say about too much sugar and sweets! Maybie we could all be helpful in redirecting some of those who can't resist the lure of eye candy! Everyone at the table might stand to benefit somehow. Cheers!

I just hope that lady survives, files a million dollar lawsuit against that priest, has that church torn down and turn it into an amusement park. I also hope the lady files charges against that rapist Priest and he goes to prison, if she doesn't file charges against him, he will continue to rape other people. Yes, in his profession, he broke some of his ten commandments. His DNA will prove that he raped the lady.

Priests becoming known as child molesters and rapists, not surprised, just wish he could be captured so he won't commit his act again. Put him on America's Most Wanted, then the whole world will understand that certain priests have no self-control. Wonder if the victim was a nun?

Oh Phreedm, I DO understand the bible and I am very appalled and disgusted at what the bible truly represents, that's why I oppose religion and all if it's violent content. The bible represents child molesters, rapists, liars, adulterers, violence against women, men, children, intentionally sacrificing innocent animals for no logical reason, wars, murderers, corruption, hypocrits, etc, etc,.

I oppose violent religion a.k.a. the bible and I live my life WITHOUT any of the listed violent content! If I lived by the bible teachings in that artificial story paperback written by maladjusted individuals, I would be living in the dark ages and promoting violence a.k.a. the bible! I have "neighbors" that claim to be religious, however, these religious "neighbors" have thrown beer cans in our yard, shot their guns and their fireworks over our heads, and their born-again brats have hit our mailbox simply because I am an Atheist and I am not brainwashed like they are! These "neighbors" cannot accept the truth about life, they instead want to live in a fantasy world worshiping false beings and promoting their violence against other people, whether it be physical and/or verbal! The bible is full of mindless brainwashing crap!

Couldn't this priest just find him a prostitute there in his area? Rapists always know their victims, true in this case. That's what most evangelicals do, at least the ones in the media from what we have seen! Violence against women, that's truly really disgusting and pathetic on his part!

The KKK = xtains promoting hate and violence against innocent people! Ban the KKK!

For a rough calculation of true believers, watch the percentage of people who pick up hitchhikers. Would Jesus drive by? Would he drive the extra mile?

Is anyine surprised at this or any of the other catholic priest sex scandals? The repression of natural human sexuality is a dangerous thing.

I agree.

No. These people are not that stupid -- they're just not really believers. They are liars about their faith and their convictions.

This seems to be a reverse no true scottsman argument. Assuming this man is guilty, it seems more likely that they're not simply liars. Experience tells me that people don't normally walk around thinking that they're gleefully lying about what they believe. Most people do believe something and in some situations set aside what they believe and indulge themselves. I do not think that is about being stupid or lyers, but more to do with convincing oneself that it's (whatever it is) not that bad or it's something they deserve. As an example, the Bible is pretty clear that one shouldn't get drunk and is one of those things I do every now and then. Now, am I a liar or stupid? I think the truth is that I get together with friends and tie one on. For me, it has more to do with a number of small decisions that comes together to do things that aren't exactly 100% reflections of what I think I should or shouldn't do.

I don't see things in black and white or 100% terms either. Someone asked if the victim could have been a nun. I don't know about that but since most nuns have quit covering themselves from head to toe in basic black and white perhaps a priest might mistake them for just some other target begging for it. I wouldn't want to come across as too harsh against certain persons who have had difficulty all along getting it off with more than their messages.

phreedm is correct in the one instance: we shouldn't condemn anyone until they're proven guilty.

However, law enforcement, the courts, and the court of public opinion has always considered flight to be evidence of guilt.

Like Dangerman says, "where is he?" If I were living anywhere nearby, I'd sure like to know. He's "a person of interest" in the investigation of a report of sexual assault and battery -- that reads to me like he's a suspect.

So if he was there when the alleged attack occurred, why did he split? Inquiring law enforcement minds want to know.

p.s. all you xtians: get yourself a copy of the monthly newspaper Freethought Today, and peruse the section headed "Black Collar Crime", where the charges, convictions, and sentences of clergy and lay-clergy (of myriad denominations and stripes) are rounded up from various news sources. It fills two full pages every issue! TWO full newspaper-sized pages, monthly, of fresh instances of especially-ordained god-believers perpetrating various acts of theft, assault, pedophilia, sexual molestation, murder etc. And this is only a small sample of the ones who are getting caught and charged. I'd be willing to bet that for every one of those slimeballs landed, at least one other stinkin' fish gets away.

Tell me, just what lesson is it that I'm supposed to learn about faith in God when this god allows its most ardent followers to commit these sorts of atrocities?

Know which xtian denomination represents over sixty percent of America's prison population? CATHOLICS. But Catholics only comprise about twenty-five percent of the U.S. adult population as a whole.

Know how many people in the U.S. profess no religion, which includes atheists? About 14 percent. And their representative prison percentage? Less than one-tenth of one percent.

"Hell" of a discrepancy, I'd say.

To address the hypocrisy issue, in debates with several born again evangelical friends, I often bring up the glaring hypocrisy between what the true believers espouse, and their actions, whether on the national level like Haggard and Robert-nut-son, to the personal level...one of these xtian friends is always spouting off about 'ragheads' and 'fags' and so forth, and when I gently point out "where's all this Christian tolerance?" I invariably get back the answer that we are all imperfect, and the bibble only act as a guide to good living...so it's the sort of get out of jail free card..."I can act horrendously and intolerantly, but then write it off by saying I'm 'trying' to be a better person by following the bibble and jeebus".

I really haven't been able to come up with a rational response to this logic (?). Except to point out that in many ways, this godless heathen (me)acts and lives with much more tolerance and love for humanity, and moral superiority, I may humbly offer. At least I don't advocate 'nuking the ragheads' and 'killing the fags'...jeesh!

The god idea is putting predators in a position of authority. If the god idea were actually true, the only reason to put a predator in charge would be because the god idea actually enjoys it. The only possible conclusions are; the god idea is false or, the god idea likes watching as its children, that it put into authority positions mind you, beat and rape its more faithful children.

In this specific case all the facts aren't known yet but, the fact is the god idea has played a role time and time again.

We have given the god idea too much already. It is time to expose the god idea pushers for what they really are. Why are we putting christians on a pedestal? Because they say they are better? They say they know their god idea is true, that there current life is only temporary and yet they excuse themselves for disobeying their god idea. All the time condemning everyone else for not believing the god idea.

Karen "Our Lady of Las Vega$"? Do they have slot machines instead of donation plates?"

Apparently the priest was trying to use the woman as a slot machine!



phreedum "something happened in your life to create such hostilities..."

You are right! My two married heterosexual and very loving agnostic parents raised me without religion. It was so brutal and traumatising to be brought up in such a loving and free-thinking home where reason ruled over superstitious fears. So what happened to you to create such a sense of hostility to reality that you must bury your head in the sand and scream at those who would have you see the universe as it truly is?

"Now as for your attempt to understand christian theology...you should spend more time studying it before you attempt to understand it...I'm always amazed at non-believers who talk about the bible as if they understood it's content... "

Well, my experience has been that it’s the Christians that don’t understand the bible. They simply can’t comprehend that what they worship and what they build their lives around is a book full of lies and deception. I would bet that for every promising verse a Christian presented, anybody on this board would find at least three verses in a matter of minutes that would contradict it. We “non-believers” are able to read between the lines and past the BS and actually read what it says. I’ve never known a Christian that has actually researched the TRUE historicity of Jesus of Nazareth or even the origins of Christianity as a whole. If they did then they would be surprised at what they found. Although, more than likely they would find some way to distort it into something that benefits their dogma, which is the common pattern among Christians who dare to question their beliefs. The thing is, if they admit even one deformity in their beliefs then that means acknowledging that their whole life is a lie.

"So what happened to you to create such a sense of hostility to reality that you must bury your head in the sand and scream at those who would have you see the universe as it truly is?"

Well put :)

I mightn't have a problem with the idea of innocent until proven guilty in this society if it were not just another myth.

The thing is, if they admit even one deformity in their beliefs then that means acknowledging that their whole life is a lie.

Why do you think so?

Interesting Baylor University study
link:
http://www.baylor.edu/pr/news.php?action=story&story=41678

they claim 4 god-types:

• 31.4 percent believe in an Authoritarian God, who is very judgmental and engaged
• 25 percent believe in a Benevolent God, who is not judgmental but engaged
• 23 percent believe in a Distant God, who is completely removed
• 16 percent believe in a Critical God, who is judgmental but not engaged

if you look at those results and then factor in other variables like:

> some "believe" just because it's more socially accepted and the path of least resistance. some to most politicians fall in this category.

> some believe because they are afraid not to

> some believe because they don't have the reasoning ability to do otherwise.

> some believers are "good" people, i.e., they practice what they perceive to be the values of jesus

> some believers think they are good people because they believe, but they don't practice the perceived values of jesus and want to impose their beliefs on others.

> some believers are "bad" people, i.e, they use religion as cover for their shortcomings.

> some believers could care less and are invisible for the most part.

so, it isn't hard to see why any particular christian's behavior can be all over the charts.

on the other hand, we atheists are easy to figure. what you see is pretty much what you get.

The thing is, if they admit even one deformity in their beliefs then that means acknowledging that their whole life is a lie.

Why do you think so?

This is what I know to be true because it’s exactly what occurred in my life. I was a Christian for about 20 years of my life, and whenever I had a question about my “faith” that I couldn’t answer I would either ignore it and feel guilty about questioning god or I would go ask one of the many pastors at my church who would usually have some prepared speech about having enough faith in god that he knows all the answers even if I didn’t, or something along those lines. A time came in my life when I just couldn’t believe in the whole predestination idea any longer. I could not believe that a “loving” and “just” god would hand pick some to go to eternal peace in heaven and some to go to eternal pain and suffering in hell, regardless if that person was a great human being while on earth.

It’s that kind of thing that proves (to me anyway) that if a Christian were to find any deformity in their religion and accept it, then that immediately throws everything else out the door. Even Christians will tell you that you can’t take some and leave the rest, its all or nothing. For another example, if a Christian were to acknowledge that Mark obviously did not bother to do any research for his book because in Mark 1:2-3 he says he is quoting Isaiah (40:3), but it’s really a misquotation of Malachi 3:1then that would be admitting that the bible (and especially the new testament, oh goodness!) is flawed. For another, Baptism is supposed to be repentance/cleansing of sin. Jesus of Nazareth was supposed to be the perfect son of God. Why then was he baptized (Mark 1: 5, 9)? And of course we all know that there are MANY more examples like these. I’m sure that some Christians on this board may attack my points but see, that is exactly my point. If they were so confident in what they believed in then why do they get so defensive when a challenging question is presented? They can make as many excuses as they want, but facts are facts.

phreedum "Now as for your attempt to understand christian theology...you should spend more time studying it before you attempt to understand it..."

phreedum, now as for your attempt to understand islamic theology...you should spend more time studying it before you attempt to understand it...

"I'm always amazed at non-believers who talk about the bible as if they understood it's content..."

I'm always amazed at non-muslims who talk about the koran as if they understood it's content...

Why do you xians always seem to hold a different set of rules for your own particular brand of lunacy and not hold those same standards to all other forms of the god delusion?

First off, what's up with the slam on Bill Clinton?? Why, dear Science, why??? I don't think there's any need for that at all.

Secondly, regarding Saladin's comments, I agree 100%. There's a lot of willful ignorance and intellectual laziness in most xtians who have any intelligience at all.

For example, if you ask a xtian about Lot offering up his teenage daughters to a mob of rapists or Christ saying you can't follow him without hating your mother and father - they will reply, "Well, what that REALLY means is blah blah blah" and go through an incredible logical loophole. (Or you may just get yelled at viciously. I've experienced both).

I think one of the best parts of leaving religion is getting rid of those logical twists and turns.

See phreedum, we have been telling you that you god is all in your head and now science is showing this to be true:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16842848/

"they will reply, "Well, what that REALLY means is blah blah blah" and go through an incredible logical loophole."

Yeah, its funny how only SOME things can be metaphorical (usually something that they claimed as fact before)and the rest fact, whenever they try and make a point.

Alex

I'm always amazed at non-muslims who talk about the koran as if they understood its content...

Actually, I was really digging some of their commandments:

Be neither miserly or wasteful in one's expenditure
Do not engage in 'mercy killings' for fear of starvation
Do not commit adultery
Do not kill unjustly
Care for orphaned children
Keep one's promises
Be honest and fair in one's interactions
Do not be arrogant in one's claims or beliefs

hillbilly

First off, what's up with the slam on Bill Clinton?? Why, dear Science, why??? I don't think there's any need for that at all.

I think what he's getting at is that Bill seems to by known by his moral lassitude and has admitted to doing wrong and therefore shares with the others being a known christian and yet having admitted at the very least being inconsistent with one's belief system. While I think Clinton was a much better politician than Bush, I do not excuse him from exercising poor judgement. I hold our elected officials to the highest standard and I find that Clinton fell short and Bush has been nothing short of a disaster in my opinon. It's one of reasons I identify with Lewis Black... I have a problem with authority not measuring up.

Oh, Alex, I don't know if you've ever watched it, but I really enjoy "Three Kings". It's an older movie, but I thought it was quite good. I thought some of the best scenes were ones where Americans and Iraqi's had fantastic dialogues and soliloqies getting at some really interesting ideas about the similarities and differences in cultures. However, I also really love Bruce Campbell movies, so I'm not sure I'm the best measure of good movies. Oh Army of Darkness, how I love you.

Spanders,
Wonder if Ash could make me a leg half as cool as his hand?
Army of Darkness RULES!

I can't find anything that say's Rev. George has been caught yet.

The LVPD does say he may be armed and dangerous though.

One of his parishioners said he (rev. George) talked about love a lot. He has an odd way of showing it though. And if he's innocent, he's got an odd way of showing that, too.

"No. These people are not that stupid -- they're just not really believers. They are liars about their faith and their convictions."

Sorry, but you are completely wrong, speaking as an ex evangelical Christian. There are many complicated reasons why believers sin, but being liars about their faith is not usually one of them.

"I invariably get back the answer that we are all imperfect, and the bibble only act as a guide to good living...so it's the sort of get out of jail free card..."I can act horrendously and intolerantly, but then write it off by saying I'm 'trying' to be a better person by following the bibble and jeebus".

I really haven't been able to come up with a rational response to this logic (?). "


The best response I have found to any "logic" of evangalical Chrsitians is to repeatedly ask the person, "What do YOU think about this topic?" You have to really be interested in the person you are talking to and in their thoughts, but if you can get them to explain in their own words (not by regurgitating the Bible or something they heard from the pulpit), then you may be able to pub a crack in their defensive shell. Don't be disappointed if you don't see immediate results. Sometimes it takes years for a person in this situation to be able to start thinking on their own. But it's never a waste to plant that idea in their minds.

Looks like Hillary Clinton may have her hands full trying to convince a country that she should be atop of us and whats going on here when she couldn't manage business at home. Her husband who was (and remains) deservedly liked and admired for a great many things caused his own political fall from grace. Would-be leaders and those in the public eye (lay people,etc) may or may not have a tough act to follow but do definately have a tough act. This day and age if they are caught with their pants down they stand to catch more than a draft. Also it would be wise for those who would be crafty to zip up more than just below. Would-be role models only add insult to injury and make matters worse when they lie about their indescretions or attempt a flimsy coverup which will not conceal or save their ass.

"Looks like Hillary Clinton may have her hands full trying to convince a country that she should be atop of us and whats going on here when she couldn't manage business at home."

hominid, I do hope you're not inferring that we should point fingers at Hillary for Bill's unfaithfulness. Please say I just misunderstood your point. If not, I do hope you never wear her shoes, because I HAVE. In fact I WAS at home managing business while my ex was out ejaculating stains on someone else's dress. The pain was immeasurable. If someone had blamed me, I think I would've throttled him/her. MY EX was the liar, MY EX was the cheater. And trust me, it was MY EX'S loss.

Thankfully my ex wasn't the pres. When the door didn't hit him in the ass, MY FOOT DID!!!

Spanders, I totally agree about "Three Kings". It was a fantastic movie, and helped to better understand the Iraki people's plight and frustrations.

As far as Bruce Campbell movies go, they produced a LOT of memorable quotes :)

"Shop smart. Shop S-Mart."

Jeebus, I'm a geek.

I can't wait to see what role Bruce Campbell will play in Spiderman 3 :)

Last for me on Bruce Campbell...

He's is staring in in a movie called "My Name is Bruce!" (joke about people calling him Ash, I would guess)

From AICN:

"It's about Bruce Campbell being mistaken for his heroic one-handed character, Ash, from the Evil Dead flicks and ends up being recruited to fight a monster in Oregon."

cry4turtles, I agree with you. Additionally Hillary showed maturity in the way she handled the situation, that is difficult to do when facing strong emotional feelings. If I remember correctly she said she considered what would be best for the nation and her family at that time. I don't think the nation should be concerned with the internal workings of a family, but certainly Hillary had valid options available that would have been more uncomfortable for the nation. hominid is wrong in putting the responsibility on Hillary.

rna2dna:

I don't think the nation should be concerned with the internal workings of a family

Try telling THAT to the chimp-in-charge, or his xtian cronies.

Phreed:

Not only do you underestimate the amount of study some nonbelievers here have put into the bible and xtian theology, but I think you also underestimate how many of us might come from religious backgrounds.

I bet a lot of us were raised as "Christians". I myself am a confirmed Catholic and taught religion classes for a few years before I studied it too hard to believe anymore. Don't you go thinking that we have no idea what the bible is about. I would think you'd know better by now.

I'm always amazed at non-believers who talk about the bible as if they understood it's content.

You don't need the special decoder ring that God gives all believers to understand the content of the bible. It's just words. Nothing magic.

You assume that a lack of belief denotes a lack of understanding of the bible. I, in fact, think of it the other way around. A lack of belief is often the result of understanding the bible all too well.

ellijay said:

A lack of belief is often the result of understanding the bible all too well.

here,here...

I'm always amazed at non-believers who talk about the bible as if they understood it's content.

Of COURSE the bible is content - it's the one, true, complete word of god, isn't it?? Wouldn't that make YOU content?

:-)

Krystalline Apostate:

Try telling THAT to the chimp-in-charge, or his xtian cronies.

georgewbush is a monkey (hehehe :-)

George george george of the jungle stupid as he can be...

George george george of the jungle no evolution be work'n on he.

Comment from: elliejay

A lack of belief is often the result of understanding the bible all too well.

It is true that the catholic church is most likely responsible for the most atheist conversions...I base my statements on comments that I've read on this blog. Examples from this thread alone...

A time came in my life when I just couldn’t believe in the whole predestination idea any longer. I could not believe that a “loving” and “just” god would hand pick some to go to eternal peace in heaven and some to go to eternal pain and suffering in hell, regardless if that person was a great human being while on earth.

if you ask a xtian about Lot offering up his teenage daughters to a mob of rapists or Christ saying you can't follow him without hating your mother and father

Baptism is supposed to be repentance/cleansing of sin. Jesus of Nazareth was supposed to be the perfect son of God. Why then was he baptized (Mark 1: 5, 9)?

But since you have been raised christian and a teacher of Scripture...tell me all that a christian would find wrong with the opening thread...?

Now...where are your scholars...?

Comment from: alexatheist

You are right! My two married heterosexual and very loving agnostic parents raised me without religion. It was so brutal and traumatising to be brought up in such a loving and free-thinking home where reason ruled over superstitious fears.

Hmmm...now alex...this is not what you've claimed in the past if memory serves me correctly.

You have always claimed to have been raised in church...claimed it was the teachings of the church that made you wake up in the middle of the night sweating...

Let's see...first it was the flushing of the Koran...then it was the use of the word "faggot"...and now this....hmmmm...your credibility is quickly evaporating...

Do you subscribe to another branch of Christianity? Perhaps one that broke off from Catholicism hundreds of years ago because they just decided they didn't like such a mean god anymore, and that they'd make up another one that's basically the same, but a lot friendlier? And that they'd just do away with a lot of the tradition and ceremony that came along with the religion, because they didn't want to think of their god in that way anymore?

You say Catholicism is the cause of many atheist "conversions". Do you think Catholicism is wrong? Do you think that Christians got it all wrong until the middle ages, and Martin Luther's list of grievances was just divinely inspired, and now YOU have it right?

Anyway, if I were a member of this priest's congregation, I would not want to believe that he did what he allegedly did. But I would be horrified that he ran, and wonder what on earth could cause him to flee if the accusations were not true.

Eh, forgot to mention: Previous post directed at phreed.

"It is true that the catholic church is most likely responsible for the most atheist conversions...I base my statements on comments that I've read on this blog."

I wasn't Catholic, I was a Prodestant.

"But since you have been raised christian and a teacher of Scripture...tell me all that a christian would find wrong with the opening thread...?

Now...where are your scholars...?"

I dont understand your questions could you please clarify them?

"You have always claimed to have been raised in church...claimed it was the teachings of the church that made you wake up in the middle of the night sweating..."

WHAT?!? I was raised in an agnostic home and can count the number of church services on one hand that I have ever attended. The homophobic ignorati of southwest Virginia are what caused me to lie awake at night fearful for my life and what my future would be as a gay man in that sort of environment. I challenege you to find one instance where I ever said I was raised in the church. Just one! You will not find it ever but you will find many instances of me mentioning my agnostic family life. Go back a few weeks or even a year. I challenege anyone else in here besides phreedum to find an assertion to the contrary. Phreedum your mind is slipping and I might suggest some Alzeheimers meds. Seriously. Now who has a credibility problem?
(shaking my head)

I found this little gem from a few days back:

"What's your country of origin and can you document this outrageous claim...?"

I thought I had made it abundantly clear on many occasions that my family are of British origin but have been in VA for a number of years now. I mean I know where you are located and many others in here too and I would guess that most regular posters are aware of where I currently reside as well. You are losing it, man. Bad. Do you remember that I'm gay? or an amputee from diabetic complications? do you know where you are sitting right now? remember your name? DAMN. If you weren't such an annoying person I would even feel sympathy for you.

alexatheist wrote:

I challenege anyone else in here besides phreedum to find an assertion to the contrary.

Hey, that's an xtian thing, trying to get people to prove nothing when nothing is there. I will admit that you at least limit the search to something less than the universe and beyond, but still it is a lot to search just to prove phreely-shackled is wrong again.

cry4turtles and rna2dna: Regarding Hillary I do not blame her for her husbands poor choices (or his lie) but I do question Hillary about not knowing what is or was going on. Most women I know (and I've known many as clients, friends, and family) either run their households themselves or at least sure as blazes know whats happening there. I'm not saying that the homefront is a womans exclusive duty but my experience with women tells me that by and large women accept the domestic responsibility. Anyway I can't figure why Hillary was completely oblivious to her husbands private affairs unless somehow they were already having trouble communicating as a couple. Maybie Bill should have just left Hillary and gone out to play. Sometimes a man can't do that however on account of his job, ties, credibility, politics, or for whatever reason. Hillary now wants to be involved with all our households and I just don't know about that quite YET. I don't think Hillary has been atop of the Iraq war situation and I didn't like her vote in favor of it. I'm also not happy with her reasoning about voting in favor of that war, her willingness to alter the constitution ie flag burning amendment, or some other positions she has taken. Hillary seems too often a fair weather friend who will go the way of what are pleasing political winds and who might in the long haul sell us out short. Maybie that is just my take of the politician in her but I don't take to it well or perceived weaknesses in her. Hillary wants to be chief executive and needs to understand when they say "If the heats too hot, get out of the kitchen". She also needs to stand strong for long standing democratic convictions if she wants to appeal more to me and others much less stay the course. The democratic process may help to answer or resolve these and other issues about Hillary but I'm just not sold on her for right now. I hope this helped clear it up, that there aren't hard feelings, and that you can understand my prior post better.

hominid, I'm not sure where all the domestic woman stuff came from. I guess I took that part of your previous post as metaphor. When I stated that I was at home taking care of business, I was (and always have been) working (PS-my cheating husband was not). Anyway, I consider myself an educated woman, and I wasn't positive about his infidelity. Yes yes, I suspected, but the dynamics of confronting a cheater are complicated. Do I risk confronting a possibly innocent man? If I'm wrong and he's innocent, will it damage our relationship? Will it erode our sense of trust? Should I follow him and see for myself? Me? A stalker?

I'd be willing to bet Hillary suspected. Don't take her for an oblivious fool. I imagine she did what I did--gave him enough rope and he hung himself. Now that's smart!

I think Hillary is a viable candidate, as long as she steers clear of that ridiculous gun-control claptrap. The NRA won't have it; after all, they got dubya elected. Do you think they're (NRA) eating crow now? I must admit I let my NRA membership expire because of their support of the Republican party.

Maybe Hillary just didn't care. Not everyone thinks it's a problem to have their partner indulge in sexual infedility.

Phreedumbass
(shaking my head like alex)

It's my guess that Hillary knew full well what Bill was "up" to, or capable of, and she was already weighing the pros and cons of how to deal with it against the possibility of running for
prez one day herself. She's a smart cookie, and also impresses me as one not given to histrionics.

The two of them may well have an "understanding", as well. Who knows?
It's irrelevant to anyone but the two of them.

Regarding Hillary and her husband's sexual misconduct as a measure of her presidential potential:

IT'S NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT THEIRS.

Not only that... but if we found out before Clinton got elected in the first place that Hillary had cheated on him before, how do you think it would affect his race? Probably nothing like it might affect Hillary's.

The concern people are throwing at Hillary and her husband's extramarital affair are proof that sexism is alive and well in America. So many other candidates are judged on their politics, and less admittedly so, their personalities. I see Hillary being bashed left and right not based on her personality, not based on her politics, but based on the fact that she's still with a man who cheated on her.

That's ridiculous.

Not only is it sexism but it also exposes how Americans love to push their own private sexual morals onto other people. I for one do not expect sexual fidelity of myself or my partners nor do I think it is part of human sexual nature, at least not long term sexual fidelity.

I agree alexatheist and am more than a little used to how Americans "push their own private sexual morals onto other people" I'd take it maybie another step to say Americans push nearly everything (if not everything) onto other people. I also agree with elliejay about it being "NOBODY'S BUSINESS" I'd take that another step to say that my personal business and choices are just that ie MINE! Cry4 turtles, I'm glad you let the NRA membership expire. I don't disagree with the idea that citizens have a right to bear arms but I think the (guns) rights and lobby are anymore ridiculous and disproportionate in regard to their original intent. I'm sure we all agree in some areas and would guess that we might not in others. All of us want our rights and want not to be trampled on, cheated on, misused, or to be violated. For not having a great deal of positive things to say about organized religion, I do think there is something (positive) to say about the Golden Rule. Political, cleric, female, male, child, racial, animal, gay, etc "bashings" and abuse are inexcusable, inappropriate, inhumane, and blatantly unfair. Violating and bashing (Verbal and physical) seem to be A-OK with all too many people anymore and on a more than routine basis. Well, this practice is NOT ok! NOT!! Maybie, if nothing else, we might at least all agree that sensibilities are something we each want shown us and might hope others wouldn't take for granted with us. Perhaps we might ALL tone it down in our language and also in our actions. We need to be giving more than just the Clintons a break when it comes to subjects dealing with respect, diversity, choices, decency, benefit of the doubt, politics, beliefs, lifestyles, etc.

sorry I hit send twice. I wasn't trying to emphsize it quite that much.

"I for one do not expect sexual fidelity of myself or my partners nor do I think it is part of human sexual nature, at least not long term sexual fidelity."

I know that sexual fidelity is rare, and it can't be extracted or forced from anyone. My dear Alex. I've grown quite fond of you, and I hope you find the one person that you know is THE one. You may or may not find it, but if you do you'll know that no person on the face of the earth can make you feel as he does, and nobody will be worth losing him for. You definetly deserve it!

Thanks! I have had a couple long term relationships where I was more concerned with emotional faithfulness than I was with sexual fidelity. I just think it is unrealistic to expect two men to be sexually faithful to only each other but I would never force my ideas on anyone elses ideas of what a relationship should be.

All I have to say is "At Least My Savior Didn't die on a cross, cause my savior is still alive."

cry4turtles I'm sorry for what you said you experienced and I agree with what you said about sexual fidelity. I guess in a sense what matters is that we each value one another enough that we don't fail when it comes to communicating that. Please know that I respect your point of view and don't believe that any of us are here to be abused regardless of our gender, preferences, or otherwise.

On True Believers

This priest knew very well that what he was doing would result in his eternal damnation to Hell if he died before he confessed. How stupid was this action? How about the Foleys, the Haggards, and the (Bill) Clintons of this world, who do what they consider to be the 'wrong thing' to do, knowing their god would damn them for it?

No. These people are not that stupid -- they're just not really believers. They are liars about their faith and their convictions

*******

No Peace for the Wicked

Each of us may be sure that if God sends us on stony paths He will provide us with strong shoes, and He will not send us out on any journey for which He does not equip us well.

Isaiah 57:14-21

And it shall be said, "Build up, build up, prepare the way, remove every obstruction from my people's way."
For thus says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: "I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite.
For I will not contend for ever, nor will I always be angry; for from me proceeds the spirit, and I have made the breath of life.
Because of the iniquity of his covetousness I was angry, I smote him, I hid my face and was angry; but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.
I have seen his ways, but I will heal him; I will lead him and requite him with comfort, creating for his mourners the fruit of the lips.
Peace, peace, to the far and to the near, says the LORD; and I will heal him.
But the wicked are like the tossing sea; for it cannot rest, and its waters toss up mire and dirt.
There is no peace, says my God, for the wicked."

Hey Christ is the way, you're not going to Heaven unless you're a man, AND a virgin, AND a member of the 12 tribes of Israel. Revelations:

7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

Cosmic rays blamed for global Atmosphere warming
By Richard Gray, Science Correspondent, Sunday Telegraph

Man-made climate change may be happening at a far slower rate than has been claimed, according to controversial new research.
“Cosmic rays blamed for global Atmosphere warming along with internal Global warming inside out. Human action has been found to play no major role in the overall spectrum of global warming”…
Scientists say that cosmic rays from outer space play a far greater role in changing the Earth's climate than global warming experts previously thought.
In a book, to be published this week, they claim that fluctuations in the number of c High levels of cloud cover blankets the Earth and reflects radiated heat from the Sun back out into space, causing the planet to cool.

Henrik Svensmark, a weather scientist at the Danish National Space Centre who led the team behind the research, believes that the planet is experiencing a natural period of low cloud cover due to fewer cosmic rays entering the atmosphere.

This, he says, is responsible for much of the global warming we are experiencing.

He claims carbon dioxide emissions due to human activity are having a smaller next to no impact on climate change than scientists think.

If he is correct, it could mean that mankind has more time to reduce our effect on the climate. osmic rays hitting the atmosphere directly alter the amount of cloud covering the planet.
The controversial theory comes one week after 2,500 scientists who make up the United Nations International Panel on Climate Change published their fourth report stating that human carbon dioxide emissions would cause temperature rises of up to 4.5 C by the end of the century.

Mr Svensmark claims that the calculations used to make this prediction largely overlooked the effect of cosmic rays on cloud cover and the temperature rise due to human activity may be much smaller.
He said: "It was long thought that clouds were caused by climate change, but now we see that climate change is driven by clouds.
"This has not been taken into account in the models used to work out the effect carbon dioxide has had.
"We may see CO2 is responsible for much less warming than we thought and if this is the case the predictions of warming due to human activity will need to be adjusted."

Mr Svensmark last week published the first experimental evidence from five years' research on the influence that cosmic rays have on cloud production in the Proceedings of the Royal Society Journal A: Mathematical, Physical and Engineering Sciences. This week he will also publish a fuller account of his work in a book entitled The Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change.
A team of more than 60 scientists from around the world are preparing to conduct a large-scale experiment using a particle accelerator in Geneva, Switzerland, to replicate the effect of cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere.

They hope this will prove whether this deep space radiation is responsible for changing cloud cover. If so, it could force climate scientists to re-evaluate their ideas about how global warming occurs.

Mr Svensmark's results show that the rays produce electrically charged particles when they hit the atmosphere. He said: "These particles attract water molecules from the air and cause them to clump together until they condense into clouds." Mr Svensmark claims that the number of cosmic rays hitting the Earth changes with the magnetic activity around the Sun. During high periods of activity, fewer cosmic rays hit the Earth and so there are less clouds formed, resulting in warming.
Low activity causes more clouds and cools the Earth.
He said: "Evidence from ice cores show this happening long into the past. We have the highest solar activity we have had in at least 1,000 years. "Humans are having an effect on climate change, but by not including the cosmic ray effect in models it means the results are inaccurate.The size of man's impact may be much smaller next to no and so the man-made change is happening slower than predicted."

Mr Harrison said: "I have been looking at cloud data going back 50 years over the UK and found there was a small relationship with cosmic rays. It looks like it creates some additional variability in a natural climate system but this is small."
But there is a growing number of scientists who believe that the effect may be genuine.
Among them is Prof Bob Bingham, a clouds expert from the Central Laboratory of the Research Councils in Rutherford. He said: "It is a relatively new idea, but there is some evidence there for this effect on clouds."

Whether you realize it or not you are in the heavens, Just whwere do you think the earth floots around, among the heavens (Space) We live in and among the heavens aso we all are in heaven among the heavens.

Lets not be narrow minded like those who believe in the Christ of God. or the people that attend churches etc...

All christians are hypocrites why else do you think the attend church.
Hippocrite is the Greek word for actor, Church members are not alone in acting or Hypocrites. every one is acting there part in life so humanmity is and are all hypocrites

It'sime for this A-holyeist to turn in for the night. Its 12:12 AM in Ohio

Hi, I am a British atheist, just registered, visiting this site for the first time. I'm certain the following has been noted in the last few days, but I have not had time to read yr posts, so here goes:
The website www.liberalsmustdie.com has boasted that it hacked into & brought down Dawkins' website. How hypocritical, more importantly, how sick is that?!

Dave,
What's your beef with Clinton? You know, you sound like a right-wing christian if you are upset because he lied about having an affair. I mean, who really gives a shit? Monica was fat anyways; it always seemed like a pity-fuck to me. And it isn't any of our business. It's between him and his wife...and his cigar collection.
Besides, it's not like he lied about say going into a war or knowledge of the illegal activities of your staff members.

FAITH IN SCIENCE?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE HAVE FAITH IN GODS POWER TODAY VERSES HISTORICAL CONCEPTS OF GODS POWER? IT IS GREAT TO TOUT THE POWER OF GOD TO DO ANYTHING BUT IF GIVEN THE CHOICE BETWEEN LIVING IN THE WILDERNESS RELYING ON GOD TO PROVIDE, OR LIVING ON FARM WITH THE TOOLS TO PROVIDE FOR YOURSELF. I BELIEVE MOST PEOPLE OF FAITH TODAY WOULD CHOOSE THE FARM WITH THEIR FEET AND GOD WITH THEIR LIPS. WOULD IT HAVE BEEN THE SAME FOR EARLY FOLLOWERS OF RELIGIOUS FAITH? SINCE EARLY JEWS, CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS WERE KNOW FOR THEIR WANDERINGS (AND GIVING UNTO CEASAR WHAT IS CEASARS), IT'S MY BELIEF THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. SCIENCE IS TO BE THANKED.

SCIENCE AND RELIGION SPRANG FROM THE SAME ROOT. RELIGION WAS THE EXPLANATION FOR OUR PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE, LIFE'S BEGININGS, SUFFERING AND REWARD, AND NATURAL PHENOMINON. TRIBAL SHAMAN ONCE EMBODIED THE SUM OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT BOTH SCIENCE AND GOD. THEY WOULD LEAD RELIGIOUS CEREMONIES, OFFER GUIDANCE, HEAL THE SICK, AND CONFRONT NATURAL CALAMITIES THROUGH DEVINE WISDOM AND PRAYER. AT SOME POINT THE SCIENCE AND RELIGIOUS PROPERTIES OF GOD'S POWER DIVERGED AND WHAT PURE SCIENCE DISCOVERED THAT DEVIATED FROM BIBLICAL TEACHING WAS SOON DISOWNED OR SILENCED BY RELIGION LIKE AN ILLEGITIMATE CHILD. ONCE THINGS WERE UNDERSTOOD BY MAN IT WAS HARD TO SEE IT AS DEVINE, LIKE A MAGIC TRICK WHO'S SECRET HAS BEEN REVEALED.

GROWING UP IN OUR ERA HAS LEFT US WITH A MENTAL PICTURE OF THE WORLD COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM PEOPLE WHO LIVED DURRING THE ERA THAT THE 3 MAJOR MONOTHEISTIC RELIGIOUS TEXTS WERE WRITTEN IN. READ THE FOLLOWING LONG/SHORT LIST AND REFLECT ON THE CAUSES/MECHANICS AS YOU UNDERSTAND THEM VS. OUR BCE COUNTERPARTS:

ELECTRICITY, HUMAN FLIGHT, MEDICINE, TORNADOES, HURRICANES, DIASEASE, COSMOLOGY, PHYSICS, MATHEMATICS, MATTER, AGE OF THE PLANET, AGE OF THE UNIVERSE, SIZE OF THE UNIVERSE, THERMODYNAMICS, GRAVITY, REPRODUCTION, EVOLUTION, RELATIVITY, ATMOSPHERE, VOLCANOES, EARTHQUAKES, FLOODS, TIDAL WAVES, SHAPE OF THE EARTH, THE MOON, MICROBES, BACTERIA, VIRUSES, MOLECULES, ATOMS, MASS, MENTAL HEALTH, PHYSICAL HEALTH, COMBUSTION, EXPLOSION, FISSION, SYNTHETICS, COMPUTERS, PHYSIOLOGY, ARCHEOLOGY

MOST OF THESE TERMS AND HUNDREDS MORE WOULD HAVE BEEN UNKNOWN TO PEOPLE LIVING JUST A HALF A MELLENIA AGO. GO BACK 2000-3000YEARS AND PRACTIALLY ALL THE TERMS AND THEIR EFFECTS ON SOCIETY WOULD FALL UNDER THE HEADING OF “THE POWER AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.”

TODAY PEOPLE RARELY LOOK TO THEIR CHURCHES FOR PREDICTIONS, SERVICES OR EXPLANATIONS RELATED TO THESE TERMS. INSTEAD WE WATCH THE NEWS FOR WHEATHER PREDICTIONS, AN INVESTMENT BANKER TO PREDICT ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, THE HYWAY PATROL FOR ROAD CONDITIONS, EXPEDIA FOR FLIGHT PREDICTIONS, DOCTORS FOR PREDICTIONS OF OUR HEALTH AND THE GENDER AND BIRTH DATE OF UNBORN CHILDREN. WE MAKE APPOINTMENTS WITH DOCTORS WHEN WE ARE SICK. WE CALL UTILITIES WHEN THE POWER SUDDENLY GOES OFF, WASH OUR HANDS BEFORE REMOVING A SPLINTER. TAKE ASPRIN FOR HEADACHES. READ GARDENING BOOKS TO RAISE PLANTS, ALMANACS FOR TIDAL AND MOON PHASES, READ REPAIR MANUALS WHEN SOMETHING BREAKS. USE A REMOTE CONTROL TO CHANGE CHANELS, A SWITCH FOR LIGHT, COOK WITH MICROWAVES, LOOK FOR RESEARCH ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB. SET UP A TELESCOPE TO STUDY THE UNIVERSE. USE A CALCULATOR TO DETERMINE VALUES, USE A PHONE TO COMMUNICATE AND A CAR FOR TRAVEL. EVERYDAY WE UTILIZE THE TOOLS OF ,AND PROVE OUR “FAITH” IN, SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY AND MATHEMATICS . WHEN OUR FAITH IS NOT REWARDED EACH AND EVERYTIME, WE GET ANOID AND BEMOAN THE FACT THAT “THINGS JUST AREN'T BUILT THE WAY THEY USE TO BE.” WE WORSHIP AT THE ALTER OF SCIENCE WITH OUR ACTIONS HUNDREDS OF TIMES A DAY. PROVING OUR FAITH THAT THESE TOOLS OF SCIENCE WILL WORK FOR US ON DEMAND.... BECAUSE THEY DO.

THEN THERE IS OUR FAITH IN GOD'S POWER. IT'S FAR MORE VERBAL AS WE DON'T EXPECT IT TO RESPOND LIKE A LIGHT SWITCH. WE DRIVE TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY,THROW IN A LITTLE BIBLE STUDY, SAY A PRAYER BEFORE EATING AND SOMETIMES JUST BEFORE BED. (IF WERE MUSLIM MAYBE WE BOW TO MECA A FEW MORE TIMES THRUOGH OUT THE DAY. NO MATTTER THE FAITH, IT WONT COMPARE TO THE TIME WE GIVE UP ON HIGH TO SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY)THEN WE DO ONE MORE THING TO PROVE OUR FAITH IN GOD, WE COMPLAIN ABOUT THE INTRUSION OF SCIENCE IN OUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND IMPEDE IT'S PROGRESS IF NECCESARY. WE DISMISS IT'S CONCLUSIONS, WE QUESTION THE MORALITY OF AND MARGINALIZE ITS SUPPORTERS AND PRACTITIONERS. WE ASSURE OURSELVES THAT WE ARE SUPERIOR BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. OUR FAITH IN GOD. IT'S LIKE BEING A DRUG USER WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT THE MORAL AMBIGUITY OF DRUG MAKERS AND DEALERS. OF COURSE WE DON'T REJECT ALL THE PRODUCTS OF OUR SCIENTIFIC HERITAGE. IN FACT, SOME MAKE GREAT STATUS SYMBOLS (IF THEY'RE BIG ENOUGH AND EXPENSIVE ENOUGH). GOD IS JUST LIKE THE CORNER STORE WITH SCIENCE CAST AS WALMART. “I PROTESTED BEFORE WALMART MOVED IN ACROSS THE STREET.” “ BUT, THE CORNER STORE DOSN'T HAVE THE SELECTION AND ON DEMAND AVAILABILITY OF WALMART THAT I ENJOY.” “MY FRIENDS AND I STILL SHOP THE CORNER STORE FOR A FEW ITEMS ,BUT SOME OF THE LESS CONCERNED AND LESS LOYAL PEOPLE OF THIS TOWN WONT SHOP THERE AT ALL.”

I WONDER IF EARLY RELIGIOUS FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM WHO HAD VERY SHORT LIST OF KNOWN SCIENCE AND A VERY LONG LIST OF THE POWERS OF GOD WOULD EVEN RECOGNIZE THAT THEIR MODERN DAY COUNTERPARTS ARE PART OF THE SAME RELIGION?. I ALSO WONDER THAT IF THEY COULD SEE ALL THE BENEFITS OF SCIENCE , RESULTING IN LONGER, HEALTHIER, MORE COMFORTABLE LIVES, WOULD THEY SHARE THE SAME DISMISSANT ATTITUDE FOR SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS OF TODAYS RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST? OR WOULD THEY HAVE A NEW APPRECIATION FOR THE TREASURES OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND FIND IT ALL..... MAGICAL?

FIATHFULL?
A. Learn to spell, &
B. Do take the capslock key off. It makes it seem as if you're bellowing.

You know.. It's uncanny how many molester/sex offender priests exist. Does anyone have data on the percentage of priests that are sexual offenders? Compare how often you read a story about a priest offender vs. any other profession. Maybe auto mechanic or librarian for example. You can probably find 1000 priest articles for any other one job.

none of the priest sex scandels actually suprise me anymore its more like hey look another sick mofo, my moms a christian she trys to drag me to church ever week and stuff and all i can say is, what part of athiest dont you understand.. she is suprised every time another priest is caught

and i agree with that whole theory of if your go is watching you all the time than why are you doing things like that?
but then again i understand it just by watching how the christian faith works.

you do have a "get out of hell free card" all that you have to do is say some prayer like "god im sorry for ____(fill in the blank) please forgive me.." and according to the bible he forgives all.

Well,us atheists can be hypocrites,too. We say he can't stand religious people forcing their beliefs on us but we do the same with our philosophy. These people are not stupid unless you are talking about George Bush who prefers politics over science. We claims he is against gay marriage and yet for politcal reasons, he refuses to listen to scientists who are for stem cells research. These researchers claim to find evidence that says homosexuality is not healthy to the body by using stem cells. He doesn't back it up because he is more interested in politcs than the truth. He is a hypocrite not the way religious people are but as an atheist is for saying he isn't one. He is one and a homosexual which is why he doesn't want people to say such things. Why doesn't he admit he is an atheist like the rest of us and gay.