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Post details: When activism pays off

05/13/07

04:11:32 pm, Categories: Announcements [A], 124 words

When activism pays off

Nicole Smalkowski is getting thousands of comments (mostly favorable) from
all over the world as a result of her appearance on ABC’s 20-20.

See:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3164811&page=1

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/comments?type=story&id=3164811

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Nicole+Smalkowski&search=Search

http://sads.myspace.com//Modules/Search/Pages/Search.aspx?fuseaction=advancedFind.results&searchtarget=tms&searchtype=myspace&t=tms&get=1&websearch=1&searchBoxID=HeaderWebResults&searchString=Nicole+Smalkowski&q=Nicole+Smalkowski

The Smalkowski band will be at the Rally for Reason at the gates of Answers
in Genesis in Northern Kentucky. See: www.rallyforreason.com

Nicole Smalkowski and Chuck Smalkowski will both speak at the Rally.

42 comments

Comments:

Comment from: reason [Member]

hurray for nicole and chuck.

and happy mothers day to moms everywhere.

05/13/07 @ 16:38

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

Wow...exactly what does a little girl from Oklahoma have to do with the protest of a private museum in Kentucky?

Gee Dave...talk about exploitation...

I can't WAIT to hear the spin about this one...

05/13/07 @ 18:52

Comment from: Nodster [Member]

Mostly favorable? That's right, there's a shitload of vicious, hateful, intolerant, unChrist-like, Phreedm-esque Christians out there. Silly me.

So unbelievably sad that it's not 100% favorable, considering that we're talking about an innocent, harmless little girl.

05/13/07 @ 20:41

Comment from: Apple_Christmas [Member]

phreedm:

Is she not allowed to have an opinion on the museum? Should she not be allowed to speak?

Atheists in general are opposed to the kind of religious misinformation ans superstition that the Kentucky museum represents, and actually, her principled stand as an atheist makes her eminently qualified to speak at the rally.

05/13/07 @ 20:43

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

AC...

Exactly what "religious misinformation" is the museum promoting...?

She's a 16 year old girl...the only reason why she's being "used" is because she was just on 20/20...

Had that interview not occured no one would give a rip about about this little girl...for if they had, the news of her appearance would have been made weeks ago...

Again I say...EXPLOITATION

Here's a simple question...who's paying for their expenses...?

And if that's not enough...have you read her opening line on her MySpace...?

"Only Adding Atheist, freethinkers, anyone on my side ..and or people who cant stand BUSH!!!!!"

I'll guarantee you one thing...once AA uses this little girl to fill their coffers...they will dump her like a hot potato...just like the "rally for reason" will within a few short weeks...

05/13/07 @ 21:36

Comment from: David Silverman [Member] · http://www.atheists.org/

Gee Phreedm, that's pretty mean. We've funded quite a bit to help this family through some very rough times -- far worse than the 20/20 episode mentioned. We sponsored their lawsuit, and are sponsoring more.

Truly, this is a one-sided issue -- the Smalkowski's were 100% right, and the school was 100% wrong. There is no real room for "It's both their fault" here.

Nicole is bright, articulate, and brave as all get-out. She is the epitome of the innocent unbeliever that was trampled by the Christian majority. She exposed the worst of christianity - by doing nothing but choosing not to comply.

We are proud to help, and yes, we are happy to hear her speak.

05/13/07 @ 21:45

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

We sponsored their lawsuit, and are sponsoring more.

Dave...so are you saying AA or their lawyers will not be financially rewarded through the courts...?

And Dave...why was she asked to speak only AFTER the 20/20 interview...?

05/13/07 @ 21:49

Comment from: reason [Member]

david i bet phreedm doesn't mind a sixteen yr old speaking in public about how jesus changed their life.

05/13/07 @ 21:54

Comment from: reason [Member]

btw phreedm i hope your nephew in the marines is doing fine.

05/13/07 @ 21:56

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

reason...yes he's doing fine. Thanks very much for asking...

And no I wouldn't have a problem with a 16 year old speaking in public about Jesus...but this is far different from the simple example you're giving...

The fact that AA is using this little girl to advance their own agenda is disgraceful...

05/13/07 @ 22:15

Comment from: Apple_Christmas [Member]

phreedm:

Are you saying that she is too young to make a decision to be an atheist? If so, then why is a 16 year old speaking for Jesus hunky-dory?

And to answer your question, the some of the religious information that the creation museum will be peddling includes (but is not limited to):

-That the earth is only several thousand years old.

-That the variety of species present on earth did not arise through a long, long period of evolution.

-That millions of species can all fit on a boat (however many cubits big it is).

These propositions are all demonstrably false, but they are exactly what a YEC position entails. Moreover, they are arrived at for religious reasons, not scientific ones as some might claim.

05/13/07 @ 22:29

Comment from: reason [Member]

phreedm so you want 1 law for christian another for atheist is what you are saying.do you want to amend the constitution to require belief in god to vote,hold office serve on a jury.

05/13/07 @ 22:36

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

I am so happy that the Smallkowski family prevailed and stood up for their rights and didn't back down in the face of pressure from intolerant OK fundies. You go girl!

05/13/07 @ 22:41

Comment from: GodFree&Glad [Member]

phreedom, you are such a jerk! Did you watch 20/20? Did you happen to notice how this young girl's life has been harmed by people just like you??? Frankly, I think you are lower than worm spit.

I man others I have tremendous admiration for Nicole.

And while I'm generally opposed to responding to comments from phreedom here's an idea. How about if this site was shut down briefly, then opened again with new rules . . . like in order to post you'd have to admit that you are an atheist, that the whole god thing is nothing but fantasy . . . and if, after confessing that you do not believe in magical thinking, you'd have to click the "I Accept" box--and then if he had guts enough to do that, if he ever expressed a pro-xian thought he'd be banned from commenting ever again EVER!

This would probably be the last we'd see of old phree. I figure he'd sooner die than have that imaginary god of his see him agree that he's ***HORROR OF HORRORS*** an atheist!

05/13/07 @ 22:48

Comment from: Apple_Christmas [Member]

GodFree&Glad:

I actually think a foil like phreedm keeps things kind of interesting on this blog (well, sometimes anyway).

Besides, wouldn't a Christian think it's okay to lie on a website to do the greater good of combating atheists?

05/13/07 @ 22:57

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

...or if everyone would just ignore the trolls as we are always advising he would go away. STOP FEEDING THE FUCKING TROLLS! STARVE THE FUCKERS.(ok I feel better now)

05/13/07 @ 22:59

Comment from: karen [Member]

GodFree&Glad
phreedm is an atheist. He just doesn't take it to the finish line like the rest of us do. He's a quitter.

I left a comment for the Smalkowskis on the ABC link, but in case they're reading here,

Smalkowskis, you are one terrific family and I am so proud of you and the way you have stood together and up against the machine! Nicole, You rock, girl, and you have great things in store for you in the future. Keep having faith in yourself and don't let the hypocrites get you down.

05/13/07 @ 23:31

Comment from: Robin C. [Member]

Having been on the receiving end of "christian love" since I became an atheist, I can tell you it is not fun. In the grand scheme of things what I have experienced is nothing compared to what the Smalkowskis went through, it was still enough to scare me. In one neighborhood I had tires slashed, pets disappear, been shunned. It was an open secret who was doing it, but it couldn't be proved. Mr. Sunday school teacher just stood there in his yard smirking everytime the police came to investigate. In the back of your mind you start to wonder if soon it will be more than your tires slashed.

I think the entire Smalkowski family is exceedingly brave for standing up the the bullying they recieved at the the hands of a town full of "christians."

So much for the "love of god" they're supposed to model.

05/14/07 @ 01:15

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

Since the title of this thread is "When Activism Pays Off" please do the right thing as an American citizen and sign this petition to show your disgust with Ms Hilton. Activism is so hot. :-)

http://www.goawayparis.com/

The video rocks too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmaAVitfnmU&mode=related&search=

05/14/07 @ 02:25

Comment from: hominid [Member]

I applaud the Smalkowskis also. Cheers!

05/14/07 @ 04:41

Comment from: cry4turtles [Member]

And no I wouldn't have a problem with a 16 year old speaking in public about Jesus...

Hmn, and whose agenda would be advanced then? Jesus'? Gawds'?
GOP's? Dobson's?

Some folks need to look in the mirror before they speak about others.

05/14/07 @ 08:42

Comment from: interesting [Member]

Phreedm - I agree with you 100%. She’s being used.

There is one little nugget in the 20/20 report that I wish someone would answer for me. The report said “Then came basketball season, and AT THE FIRST GAME, everything changed -- because after the game the girls gathered to recite the Lord's Prayer." BUT immediately following Nicole says, “I didn't think they had religion in sports. But when it came to basketball they would pray before and after practices. They would pray during games. And you know, praying was a tradition for them and that is what they said.”

So either they didn’t have a single basketball practice before the first game, and therefore Nicole was caught unaware of the praying tradition, or Nicole knew full well before the first game the tradition of praying at this school with this team.

My question therefore is why wasn’t this handled before the first game? Had she participated in these prayers during practices when no one was around to see her, but it became an issue at the first game because people (her parents?) were witnessing? It seems to me that if she knew their tradition of praying, as she states, then the “what I will do when you guys pray” situation would have been worked out well in advance of their first game.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=3164811&page=1

05/14/07 @ 09:53

Comment from: Tarma [Member]

And while I'm generally opposed to responding to comments from phreedom here's an idea. How about if this site was shut down briefly, then opened again with new rules . . . like in order to post you'd have to admit that you are an atheist, that the whole god thing is nothing but fantasy . . . and if, after confessing that you do not believe in magical thinking, you'd have to click the "I Accept" box--and then if he had guts enough to do that, if he ever expressed a pro-xian thought he'd be banned from commenting ever again EVER!

YES, YES, YES, A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!! I'm glad it isn't just me. I am so sick and tired of almost every thread being taken over by these xian nutbars. I go long stretches without logging in to the blog because of that. Then I think maybe, just maybe, phreedum, jcc, et al have gone away, and I check back in. But NO, almost every discussion devolves into this stupid sniping back and forth.

05/14/07 @ 10:40

Comment from: HeatheNZ [Member] · http://www.heathenz.bravehost.com

Tarma,

I too find myself less and less interested in the phreedm battles. Most of the time, as you say, it really just provocation and sniping which is why my personal tactic is to briefly scan the message and just ignore it if it's in such a vein.

However I'd not advocate an atheist only policy. Just as I'd not be behind banning posters. In my opinion the xian posters on this site are very welcome. Sometimes their comments are irrational and frustrating, but other times they are great primers for debate.

I'm sure phreedm is an intelligent person, and I've seen him post some interesting comments. Unfortunately, in recent times these have been few and far between.

05/14/07 @ 11:22

Comment from: DVanWechel [Member]

interesting:

My question therefore is why wasn’t this handled before the first game? Had she participated in these prayers during practices when no one was around to see her, but it became an issue at the first game because people (her parents?) were witnessing? It seems to me that if she knew their tradition of praying, as she states, then the “what I will do when you guys pray” situation would have been worked out well in advance of their first game.

What's your point?

"...when no one was around to see her"

How about her teammates and coaches? They could see her, couldn’t they? Or more importantly, how could this possibly have been settled before the first game when "no one was around to see her", as you put it? I’m guessing that being out numbered by 11 to 1 with no one to support her position made it very difficult to bring this up during practices (assuming her team consists of 11 players). Just exactly like when I played basketball. During practice there is no one to go to when everyone is expecting you to participate in their ritual of submission. For a teenager, mob-rule can be a very intimidating situation — like it was for me.

If she had been expelled for praying, I’m guessing you and phreedm would be much more supportive of her position.

Your hypocrisy is disgusting.

05/14/07 @ 12:29

Comment from: Tarma [Member]

HeatheNZ,

I appreciate what you're saying, but when the taunting and bickering flavors the entire experience, it is extremely annoying. I think the premise of this blog is excellent, and it is one of the few places atheists and other free thinkers can come to chat, lurk, and commune with like-minded individuals. I really haven't found another of its quality and appeal. However, it has become increasingly difficult to ignore the blathering of phreedumb, jcc, interesting (not!), and the rest of the jesus gang when they are allowed and indeed encouraged to take over every topic. If there was more of the open-minded and intelligent commentary contributed by someone like spanders I would have no problem, but he seems to be a rare commodity in these parts.

Thanks for letting me vent!

05/14/07 @ 13:05

Comment from: rainbows4dinosaurs [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/thedrivensnowmusic

Damn, she plays football, basketball, taught herself classical piano and plays drums in her dad's rock band? This girl's amazing.

Exploited my ass. She's probably both thrilled to finally get to hang out with people who don't see her as the devil incarnate and excited for a chance to participate in some good old fashioned activism. More power to her!

05/14/07 @ 13:36

Comment from: bilgepumper [Member]

Tarma,

"I am so sick and tired of almost every thread being taken over by these xian nutbars."

It couldn't happen if atheist nutbars would just refuse to engage him in his inane commentary.

Not meant to offend, cause I know it can be hard to resist.

bilge

05/14/07 @ 13:40

Comment from: Tarma [Member]

bilge,

Point well made and haven't always resisted myself. It would take a united front, however :)

Tarma

05/14/07 @ 13:43

Comment from: reason [Member]

maybe it is time for atheists to think hard about home schooling or private schools for atheists.the technology available now just maybe we should look at self segregation and leave the haters and village idiots to wallow in their own mess.

05/14/07 @ 14:16

Comment from: DVanWechel [Member]

reason,

Isolationism is seldom a good solution.

05/14/07 @ 14:19

Comment from: HeatheNZ [Member] · http://www.heathenz.bravehost.com

reason,

I'd rather advocate and work for inclusion than exclusion.

05/14/07 @ 14:29

Comment from: jshanewhit [Member]

I agree that it is better to stand up for our rights, as Americans than to end up homeschooling. Homeschooling can be a good option for those with adequate tools and education, but there are few of us with the fully rounded knowledge that our children should be getting. Teaching is a full time job, not many adults in the american workforce can afford the time that teaching takes.

Tarma,

yep, it takes some self control to avoid the troll. Ignore him and he will go away eventually. He is getting some sort of emotional payback for being an idiot, leave him to get it somewhere else. He sure isn't going to change anyones mind here. We are better educated and are not interested in what he is selling.

seems a pointless exercise, phreedumb is not going to get the real world no matter how much evidence we have. Leave him to his misery.

05/14/07 @ 15:31

Comment from: interesting [Member]

DVanWechel - I'm absolutely supportive of her position. She can believe what she wants, pray or not, etc. My question is if she KNEW of the praying ritual before the first game, why wasn't the issue addressed BEFORE this first game?! You suggest mob-rule and being intimidated - then why not go to her own father? The point remains - I think the news report's sell of "and AT THE FIRST GAME, everything changed " is misleading. She knew before the first game.

I'm all for her right not to pray. But this clearly could have been handled better ... and sooner, by ALL parties involved.

05/14/07 @ 15:34

Comment from: bilgepumper [Member]

reason,

I agree with home schooling, not for purposes of isolation, but for a better, more rounded and efficient education. True, not everyone has the resources to effectively educate, but with the advent of the internet and several quality home school programs with proven results, it is becoming more viable. I have a niece who decided in her freshmen year to home school herself and graduated a year early. She scored very high on the asvab test and entered the Airforce. They sent her to a one year school to learn the Chinese language.

I also have thought it would be nice for atheists to have some private school options. I would then have no objections to the teaching of all the various religions, as myth of of course.

I have yet to see the 20/20 episode yet but have it taped and look forward to seeing it.

Bilge

05/14/07 @ 19:10

Comment from: remy [Member]

There was a mention of an athletic scholarship for which she will no longer be eligible. That is quite a severe consequence for not believing in the supernatural.

People want to belong which is why being shunned is so hurtful. Wouldn't the Christian response have been to make her as comfortable as possible within the school and demonstrate how they follow the teachings of Christ? Oh wait, I forgot, Christians are as forgiving as the King Troll on this blog.

Does AA have a scholarship program to which I could contribute? I know of a deserving recipient.

05/15/07 @ 12:00

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

Interesting...

Dave...I'll take your silence as to my questions as a yes to the fact that AA and their lawyers being financially rewarded by "using" this young girl...

Yes RD..."EXPLOITED"

Let's just let time bury this thread...

05/15/07 @ 19:44

Comment from: rainbows4dinosaurs [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/thedrivensnowmusic

phreedm,

As if Evangelicals don't bring their kids to anti-abortion or anti-gay rights rallies. It's the Christians who make their children go to church and do 'missionary' work, whether they are interested in it or not. I guess 'exploited' is in the eye of the beholder.

05/16/07 @ 00:05

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

r4d...you're changing the topic and you know it...

AA is pimping this little girl for their own financial reward...

05/16/07 @ 10:57

Comment from: rainbows4dinosaurs [Member] · http://www.myspace.com/thedrivensnowmusic

phreedm

Yeah yeah, AA is just in it for the money! HAHAHAHHA
They barely make enough to keep the lights on, from what I can tell.

You really crack me up sometimes - a walking caricature.

05/16/07 @ 23:51

Comment from: cry4turtles [Member]

PIMP= people who sell other people's bodies to gawd (as a premise to souls).

GAWD= the world's biggest "john".

05/17/07 @ 14:47

Comment from: karen [Member]

I imagine someone as smart and together as Nicole is using her 'free will' to decide to speak at the rally.
;)
Perhaps she is even capitalizing on her 15 minutes of fame, and turning lemons into lemonade.

Good for Nicole.

05/17/07 @ 15:05

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