NoGodBlog.com

Good for them...

...though I do have a couple of questions for the theists on this board.

Do you support teaching of the bible in public schools? If so, in what regard? As literature or as historical fact, for example?

If you do support the teaching of the bible in public schools (in any regard) would you also then support open debate / criticism of it in the class room?

Would you be comfortable with a publicly paid official teaching their interpretation of the bible to your children — outside of your control?

And finally, if you support teaching the bible in public schools, would you also then support the teaching of other religious texts from other faiths under the same conditions in which the bible is being taught?

I can hear it now, 'Oh, we're soooo persecuted. I can't believe they want to abolish our beautiful religion'.

Fundamentalists are just playground bullies anyway.

One argument I've always used against the proponents of teaching creationism in public schools is that I tell them, 'sure, as long as churches teach evolution by qualified scientists, and not by the liars on the pulpit'.
Usually shuts them up!

Sad thing is is that this is in Texas, so I'm not crossing my fingers.

From the preface to the King James Bible:

And now at last, by the mercy of God, and the continuance of our labours, it being brought unto such a conclusion, as that we have great hopes that the Church of England shall reap good fruit thereby; we hold it our duty to offer it to Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty, that since things of this quality have ever been subject to the censures of illmeaning and discontented persons, it may receive approbation and patronage from so learned and judicious a Prince as Your Highness is, whose allowance and acceptance of our labours shall more honour and encourage us, than all the calumniations and hard interpretations of other men shall dismay us. So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God's holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self-conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil; we may rest secure, supported within by truth and innocency of a good conscience, having walked the ways of simplicity and integrity, as before the Lord; and sustained without by the powerful protection of Your Majesty's grace and favour, which will ever give countenance to honest and christian endeavours against bitter censures and uncharitable imputations.

So do texans agree with and honor 'Your Majesty, not only as to our King and Sovereign, but as to the principal Mover and Author of the work: humbly craving of Your most Sacred Majesty' of England like all real followers of the KJV?

Why isn't continued allegiance to the sovereign of another country not treason in the United States?

Why do so many Americans follow a feudal religion that worships not only clergy but also the embodiment of God on earth, his ruling royalty of centuries old Europe?

Good points Peter, which actually lead me to another question. And that is:

Which version of the bible would they have taught in public schools?

texas is full of fakes drinking,drugs,fornicating but in church on sunday.what is the use of teaching religion if people aren't going to practice it.parents teach by example.if pride is a sin the whole state of texas is going to hell.are the teachers that have sex with students going to be the ones teaching the bible?

DVanWechel they are going to use the correct version, the one they believe in.this will solve all problems in public schools.

Peter

Why isn't continued allegiance to the sovereign of another country not treason in the United States?

Hey, hey, slow down buster. Some of us are citizens of more than one country. This is the only country that has required an oath of alleigence from me. I'm not sure how others in my situation feel, but I for one do not consider myself bound by a coercive oath and have more regard in this respect for countries that work to earn the loyalty of its citizenry than those that require its public affirmation (in rote form to boot).

Conversely, many teachers reported that students in their English classes who were not famimliar with the Bible were disadvantaged. One California teacher said: "Sutdents who don't know the Bible are certainly at a disadvantage. It's harder for them. They're not as familiar with it, and it takes more time for them to understand what it is." Teachers reported students without Bible knowledge take more time to teach, apperaing "confused, stumped, and clueless."

http://www.bgct.org/TexasBaptists/Document.Doc?&id=1519

Once again a minority imposing their views upon the majority...

Phreedm,

How about a majority imposing its beliefs on the minority?

Why, exactly, should my child (if I had children) be forced to learn from YOUR religious book in a publicly-funded classroom against my wishes as a parent?

You're free to teach your children the bible whenever you wish. But in forcing your bible into the classroom, you have taken away my right as a parent to protect my child from your religious book.

Maybe you'd like it if the Koran was forced upon your children in a public classroom — against your wishes?

In mostly atheistic Great Britain we all had to take mandatory religion classes and learn about the major world religions in a matter of fact and non prostelytising fashion. I'm all for teaching American kids about religion since they rank near the bottom in religious literacy but I'm not sure that it could be taught here without preaching or giving favourable attention to xianity.

When we are at the point of near 100% proficiency in language arts, math and science, with a strong social studies program under our students' belts, then I think we can think about adding such piffle as Bible as Literature as HS electives. Until then, we have much more urgent issues to consider.

That is why it is extremely important that we not only teach comparative religion classes (without the proselytizing), but also critical thinking classes.

This country would be in much better shape for it.

I think we would have a lot less bullying from religious groups, too.

The Buybull isn't literature, but it is fiction. It should be taught in schools because so much of our culture (Canadian and American)refers to it.

I was teaching in a High School last week and a student wasn't quite sure what a Hebrew was. He had just come from a history class where the Holocaust was being introduced.

"Why don't they just tell us these things?" he queried. Presumably the teacher was walking on egg shells to avoid offending anyone. (This particular school has a considerable number of theists.)

remy
I am amazed that in this day and age someone can live such an insular life that they can get into HS without knowing what a Hebrew is.

If the teacher was presenting a Holocaust lesson, I'd think it would be totally acceptable to offer an explanation of 'Hebrew' or Jews in that context. Sheesh.

I agree with Boise Jim about critical thinking classes. Or critical thinking as a learning method all throughout school.

But I still say we need to get up to speed on the basics before we worry about controversial extras. Besides, the Bible would be better studied on the college level, I think.

"Besides, the Bible would be better studied on the college level, I think."

Now Karen you know these phreaks won't allow that. Gotta get'em young when they're defenseless and impressionable and haven't had a chance to discover what a diaper load it really is.

You know, I had a lot of trouble with mythology in high school. I would guess that I was, to paraphrase, "taking more time to learn, and probably appeared "confused, stumped, and clueless."

Then again, I never gave much stock to made up stories, myths, and legends.


Yeah, if you've haven't been indoctrinated at a young age, that BS in the Bbull is kinda hard to understand and comprehend. I think that's why they have to start you young. If they started you at say, age 10, you'd question it too much!

Chaos Fngineer

Now Karen you know these phreaks won't allow that. Gotta get'em young when they're defenseless and impressionable and haven't had a chance to discover what a diaper load it really is.

Ack! You got me on that one!
What was I thinking.
I'll strip down and begin self-flagellation.

Or self-something.

Karen,
I wish I had more time to participate these days. I'd very much like to slap the likes of ipikak79 but...

Children are naturally curious and I am fairly certain that they would ask difficult questions which would lead to non-belief. The Buybull is so, so idiotic, that I think a lot of kiddies would eventually have to reject it.

"Once again a minority imposing their views upon the majority"

Wrong again, phreedm. It is enforcing the law.

Our democracy isn't simply majority rule. If everyone in U.S. voted to enslave all citizens of, say, Minnesota, it would be illegal-- not to mention immoral.

Ah, don't pick on Minnesota. They're my neighbor to the east. You betcha!

Yeah, if we're going to enslave an entire state, I'd choose Utah.

Utah it is!

Howdy folks, Joe Zamecki here. I finally got around to registering for this blog. :o)

I made an error in that original report. It's not HB 3678 that's the Bible class bill. It's HB 1297.

HB 3678 is the religious expression in public schools bill. There are so many religious bills in the Texas legislature right now, it's really hard to keep up!

It's important to discuss this amongst ourselves, but let's also take a few minutes to place a friendly call to our elected representatives, to let them know we exist. Especially those of us in Texas. It's so easy, and they'll appreciate that you care enough to make the call.

Thanks to blog master Dave for posting the original report.

Joe Zamecki aka aajoeyjojo
Texas State Director,
Life Member,
American Atheists
www.atheists.org/tx
www.youtube.com/aajoeyjo
(512)382-9283