Post details: Bigamists, Idiots, and Mormons (oh My!)

05/21/07

Permalink 03:38:03 pm, Categories: Announcements [A], 323 words   English (US)

Bigamists, Idiots, and Mormons (oh My!)

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- A traveling minister who served two years in prison on bigamy charges has been jailed again after at least four women said he proposed to them.

Officials also say there is no evidence that Bishop Anthony Owens, 35, divorced the eight wives he had married before going to prison.

A judge will decide whether Owens should go back to prison. Owens, who turned himself into the Gwinnett County jail April 30, declined to be interviewed.

But his new fiancees aren't keeping quiet.

Betty Dixon, 38, met him last March in a casino near Memphis.

"He was a slick talker," the nurse said. "He told me God had sent him to me and I needed help."

Nurse Cheryl Selmon, 48, says Owens proposed to her last October. A month later, he proposed to Darlene Keeler, 42, a manager of a gospel group.

Then he met 43-year-old Karen Ward, a mother of two young children, and proposed to her.

"He said God gave him a message that he was going to move my family to California for a better life," Ward said. "I gave up my apartment. I took my children out of school. He said he is a real man of the Lord. But he is just a mess. I hate the day that I met him."

According to police reports, Owens' first marriage was in 1990 in Memphis, Tennessee, Owens' birthplace. At the age of 18, he married 43-year-old Joanna Hill.

He said the marriage was troubled from the start and that a misunderstanding of Mormon teachings led him to marry 41-year-old Earleen Mabien in 1992, even though he was still married to his first wife.

After Earleen, Owens married six other women from 1995 to 2002 in South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee and Georgia. The last of those wives learned about the others and called police.

Owens has said he did divorce some of the wives, but he can't remember which ones.

And, while we're talking about people misusing religion...

Comments:

Comment from: imaskeptic [Member]
brigham young ran into a woman on the street...she asked him for 5 dollars...he said he didn't give to charities or panhandlers...she said i'm your wife...he said "i thought you looked familiar"
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 16:08
Comment from: HeatheNZ [Member] · http://www.heathenz.bravehost.com
Oh dear. I live literally only 500 feet from Gwinnett county. I must remember not to go to go to church there.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 16:13
Comment from: karen [Member]
Beware of anyone with a "message" from god.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 16:19
Comment from: karen [Member]
HZ
Don't worry hon; he probably won't propose to you.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 16:20
Comment from: BibleBeltBoy [Member]
Jesus told me he loved me ... now he never calls. So very typical!
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 16:27
Comment from: CAB4reason [Member]
BBB, thanks for the laugh.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 16:44
Comment from: writerdd [Member]
well, at least he's not collecting teenage wives.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 17:05
Comment from: BibleBeltBoy [Member]
Ahhh... writerdd it's funny you should mention his predeliction for "older" women ... this link tells the rest of the story on WHY he does what he does. The writer of this story even thinks he should get off :) Well, you know what I mean ... heh

http://www.ahherald.com/atlarge/2004/040318_anthony_owens.html
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 17:43
Comment from: alexatheist [Member]
So what's wrong with having multiple spouses anyway? Think about it. If it is between consenting adults then who cares? We already have laws against having sex with children and welfare fraud so honestly can anyone give me a good secular reason why mormons, or anyone else, shouldn't be allowed to have plural marriages?
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 18:57
Comment from: karen [Member]
Alex
If the adults are consenting, there's not much wrong with polygamy or polyandry, except IMO someone's going to get short-shrifted.

But in this case, it doesn't appear to be consentual.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 19:01
Comment from: CAB4reason [Member]
OT: CNN HN Prime just did a piece about the Creationism Museum. Ha-ha, it has displays showing dinosaurs and people living together. Are these people really that stupid?

At the end of the piece, they said that scientific scholars across the country are signing petitions criticising the museum.

(Ew, now that efftard Gleen Beck is on. Must...change... channel...now!)
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 19:14
Comment from: GodFree&Glad [Member]
I agree with Karen on the consenting adult business. Whatever. But what about kids with no choice? Not so good, I'm thinking.

As for the nurse,48 and apparently still dumber than a box of rocks, the guy says he is a real man of god and has a message from the big guy; so she gives up her apartment and takes her kids out of school? Yeah, I'd be buying that one--NOT! What really scares me is that she's a nurse??? I'm gonna try and stay out of the hospital.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 19:48
Comment from: emkay [Member]
I'm with Alex and Karen above, in the broader sense, who cares if it's consensual? The same people that are trying to deny same sex marriage are the ones squawking about polygamy--it's the same old story of imposing your personal morality on others. If nobody is being harmed, MYOB, on the personal and governmental level.

I think 'marriage' in the religious sense should be separated from civil unions anyway, which should be available to any consenting adults and recognized by all gummint levels.

Now, in the case in question here, it seems obvious the wives aren't aware of the other wives, as they are in a polygamist type situation where it's one big happy (?) family. I think what applies legally in the cited case is something closer to fraud. As for the victims, well, there's no way of legislating idiocy or naivety.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 20:19
Comment from: reason [Member]
he should get the max prison time. between the hedonists and the religious nutjobs this country is going down the drain.who the hell does this punk think he is disrespecting our laws and customs.if you want more than one wife work to change the law don't just do your own thing.
Permalink 05/21/07 @ 22:14
Comment from: What [Member]
CAB4reason

"Ha-ha, it has displays showing dinosaurs and people living together."

Are they having a yabba dabba do time?
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 00:45
Comment from: Tuen [Member]
Alex,

I agree but watch out, soon they'll accuse you of justifying sex with animals. (this blog will not accept the actual term)

...but then, although animals cannot express conventional consent, who's to say a sexually aggressive animal has never approached a consentual human?

....a perhaps bizarre point here, which segues to the following joke:

a man walks into his home carrying a sheep -
his wife turns around and stares at them -
the man says: this is the pig I've been sleeping with -
the wife says: that's not a pig, that's a sheep -
the man says: I'm not talking to you
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 00:51
Comment from: phreedm [Member]
Comment from: alexatheist

So what's wrong with having multiple spouses anyway?...can anyone give me a good secular reason why mormons, or anyone else, shouldn't be allowed to have plural marriages?


Sure...how about benefits. Imagine how much a health insurance policy would cost the taxpayers if a husband had 3 wives...with 7 kids...and he was the only one working...employed at the local public schools...

And that's just one reason...

Permalink 05/22/07 @ 07:56
Comment from: phreedm [Member]
Dave...just out of curiosity.

Do you ever post something positive, educational, and a benefit to atheists on this blog?

Something that builds up and doesn't tear down...?
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 07:58
Comment from: HeatheNZ [Member] · http://www.heathenz.bravehost.com
Sure...how about benefits.
Perhaps the US would consider offering medical care to all it's citizens regardless of their employment status or ability to pay?

Oh wait, that would be socia1ism...

Oh wait, that would be helping one's fellow (hu)man...
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 09:28
Comment from: Ren [Member]
Something only slightly off topic.

This morning on CNN, I saw a new credit card being issued by (Visa?) in the name of the Catholic Church. Just think about it: With every purchase you make, a small donation (10%?) goes to the Vatican!

Happy, happy. Joy, joy.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 11:23
Comment from: alexatheist [Member]
The solution to the question of benefits is to allow any two people to have a civil union and thus have the same benefits which only married people currently enjoy. The polygamist would have a civil union with only his first wife and then each additional two wives woud enter into a civil union with each other.
Plural marriage is scriptural so I would think that more xians would support the idea.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 11:38
Comment from: karen [Member]
Alex
But your solution doesn't help the threesome.

And phreedm is just describing what goes on all the time, only without benefit of marriage. Not that the guy wants to marry any or all of the women by whom he fathered the children.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 11:45
Comment from: podry [Member]
phreedy: do you ever post anything that is based in fact or that doesn't try to tear apart an argument without listening (or reading) the other side?

you and your religion breed hate...we are hated for not following the hatred...David's posts are for us to show you the idiocy of your devotion to that sad belief system.

Permalink 05/22/07 @ 12:02
Comment from: mxracer652 [Member]
Sure...how about benefits. Imagine how much a health insurance policy would cost the taxpayers if a husband had 3 wives...with 7 kids...and he was the only one working...employed at the local public schools...


Do you always have the attitude of "Hooray for me, fuck everyone else"? Seriously, are you just paranoid that everyone is out to take all your money?
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 12:04
Comment from: earlwarner [Member]
The insurance angle isn't that complex. They already have different rates for single, married, and married w/children. Setting a rate for multiple spouses (or is that "spice"?) shouldn't be a show-stopper.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 12:10
Comment from: DD Dropout [Member]
...and these are the spice of my life. This one is Alex and here's Brian and over there is Charlie and...
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 13:12
Comment from: evilatheistconquerer [Member]
Actually, it would be pretty complicated to legalize polygamy. It would be really easy to legalize same-sex marriage though. Think about it, you just change a word or two in the laws and everything stays the same. With polygamy, who decides who gets what? Normally the living spouse gets all the assets in the event of death without a will, but who gets it with a polygamous union? Also, what about consent? We legalize polygamy and we could end up with the same thing that this asshole did. So does every previous spouse have to sign a consent form before the marriage can take place? And what happens to the kids in the event that the mother dies and there is no will? Sure they live with the father, but in which household? Then you have to figure in taxes. Does someone with more than one spouse get more taken off in taxes? Or is it the same?

Sure, polygamy works great in other societies and cultures where it has always existed, but the laws, if they exist, are designed around that. If you introduce it into a society where it was formerly unacceptable, then you have a lot of things to change and work out.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 19:02
Comment from: leestein [Member] · http://www.MySpace.com/leestein
Comment from: evilatheistconquerer [Member]

Sure, polygamy works great in other societies and cultures where it has always existed, but the laws, if they exist, are designed around that. If you introduce it into a society where it was formerly unacceptable, then you have a lot of things to change and work out.
----------------------------

True, but you could see how the other societies handled the problems and use that as a model, rather than reinventing the wheel. :)
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 20:39
Comment from: Ren [Member]
Campbell County authorities arrested a Liberty University student for having several homemade bombs in his car.

The student, 19-year-old Mark D. Uhl of Amissville, Va., reportedly told authorities that he was making the bombs to stop protesters from disrupting the funeral service.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3201543&page=1

Permalink 05/22/07 @ 21:14
Comment from: reason [Member]
ren what is your thoughts on this.i am glad a family member called police.if he had susceeded this country would have been in lockdown.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 21:43
Comment from: phreedm [Member]
Heathen...in case you've been stuck with the 60's mentality...Socia1ized medicine doesn't work...and it's on the way out...

Take a look at the recent election if France...
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 22:41
Comment from: phreedm [Member]
Comment from: alexatheist

Plural marriage is scriptural


Hmmm...where?
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 22:43
Comment from: remy [Member]
Heathen, in case you've been stuck with the 60's mentality. Socia1ized medicine doesn't work and it's on the way out.

You unbelievably ill-informed twit.

Take a look at Scandinavia, and Britain not to mention Canada. Sure, there are problems, but no one goes bankrupt due to catastrophic illness.

Permalink 05/22/07 @ 22:54
Comment from: reason [Member]
phreedm
look in the book you can have more then 1 wife.this is the true word of the creator. your blasphemy is an abomination in the eyes of the most high.repent or you will be devoured by the vile one. i detect from the tone of your writings that you have done some unclean thing.did you lie with a man or beast.there can be no forgiveness for such wickedness.
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 23:03
Comment from: karen [Member]
I gather that we can't achieve a consensus on ignoring phreedm's more inane posts, eh?
Permalink 05/22/07 @ 23:49
Comment from: DD Dropout [Member]
Phreedm, you asked for it.

The Bible is a little confused on the subject of multiple wives. I can't imagine why.

The following verses either regulate or document polygamy, without condemnation:

Genesis 4:19
Genesis 16:1-4
Genesis 25:6
Genesis 26:34
Genesis 28:9
Genesis 31:17
Genesis 32:22
Ex.21:10
Dt.21:15
Judges 8:30
1 Sam.1:1-2
2 Sam.12:7-8
1 Kg.11:2-3
1 Chr.4:5
2 Chr.11:21
2 Chr.13:21
2 Chr.24:3
Mt.25:1

Dt.17:17 forbids a particular king from having more than one wife, implying it would otherwise have been allowable.

The same rule is applied to bishops in the following:
1 Tim.3:2
Titus 1:6-7

Passages that are interpreted as being against polygamy by some, but not all biblical students are:

Gen.2:24
Mt.19:4-5
Mt.19:9
Mk.10:11
1 Cor.7:2
Eph.5:33

Several of the latter group state it is not acceptable to divorce a woman unless she has committed adultery and for a man to marry after an unacceptable divorce is adultery. This leaves a loophole for anyone to see.

Really, with all the contradictions, anyone who takes the bible as a rule book is wasting their time. Too many people use it to find rules to permit them to wield power over others.
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 00:20
Comment from: DD Dropout [Member]
And on the subject of medicare, what Remy said.

Even with the difficulties here, no way would I give up the Canadian system for the US one.

When you step back and look carefully, it is apparent that the costs of medical science have reached the point that if everyone received every diagnostic and procedure that could be a benefit to them, the cost would exceed the GDP of most any country. Maybe a couple of petroleum producers could still manage, I don't know.

Therefore something has to give. Priorities get enforced one way or the other.

Here it is wait times, especially for non emergency treatment. Sometimes hospital beds are in short supply. For the most part, everyone gets the same treatment.

There in the US, only the rich and the well-insured get the best care, as I understand it. Google didn't help me much on how good Medicaid and Medicare coverage is, but I assume there are limits that make them less than ideal.

To really get screwed financially by an illness, I understand you need to be making enough money to be disqualified from Medicaid while not having insurance. Someone will point out my errors, I'm sure.

I wouldn't mind seeing the AMA and CMA lose the chokehold they have on the supply of doctors, either.
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 01:37
Comment from: remy [Member]
Sorry Karen. I have been very good lately but I couldn't stop myself. I do feel a wee bit soiled though.
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 07:19
Comment from: cry4turtles [Member]
Alex, I really don't give a hoot what people do with their relationshops. Numerous wives and husbands (yes that can go the other way) are the business of those who subscribe to the lunacy; however, experience shows that polygamists can not keep their hands off of the children, and, even though they smile for their pictures, polygamy is a familial disaster. But I agree; if that's the way they want it, they can have it. Good for them. Just keep the kids out! Oh yeah, they can't.

P.S. Health insurance? Does anybody really have that anymore?
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 08:28
Comment from: reason [Member]
wrong cry4turtles people don't have rights unless the gov't gives it to you.you are right about polygamists being child molesters and that is why they need to be rooted out and sent to prison.
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 13:53
Comment from: HeatheNZ [Member] · http://www.heathenz.bravehost.com
reason,
you are right about polygamists being child molesters and that is why they need to be rooted out and sent to prison.
Please provide some evidence of this claim that shows a significant difference between such people and the rest of society. Currently it sounds like pure prejudice.
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 15:08
Comment from: thegoodatheist [Member] · http://www.thegoodatheist.net
Although it's true that fundamentalist mormons often marry their daughters out, sometimes as young as 12 to much older men. But ploygamy, or even polyamourous individuals are not themselve immoral. Simply because some people choose to marry multiple individuals, does not mean that they are any more or less "good" then we are. We should keep in mind that for most of human history, the one man one woman dynamic has been fairly recent.
Permalink 05/23/07 @ 18:32
Comment from: reason [Member]
HeatheNZ it is pure prejudice on my part.everyone in united states knows our customs and law restrict marriage to two people.polygamists are religious upstarts whats next letting forty yr old men marry 12 yr olds,honor killings.
Permalink 05/24/07 @ 22:19
Comment from: HeatheNZ [Member] · http://www.heathenz.bravehost.com
reason,

Thanks for the concession. Just a note though: Polygamy does not have to be associated with religion, it just happens to be lumped with mormonism in this country.

Also your argument is a slippery slope argument. 40 - 12 year old marriages and honour killings are red herrings to the question of polygamy.
Permalink 05/24/07 @ 23:30

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