NoGodBlog.com

"mankind is a huge,unstoppable,hot-meat glacier devouring everything in it's path" kurt vonnegut......i would add that it has a wooden cross holding it's cavernous mouth open.No one can stop us now...we use weapons to tenderize the hard bits... and the bible to cover our odorous waste.Abandon hope all ye who enter here

I would add that this Christian Nation founded by "good Christian" men (who according to the religious right today actually weren't talking about Christianity when they specified separation of church and state) was one of the last countries in the world to outlaw slavery.

However other nations are not blameless either, and you shouldn't beat yourself up too much. In the last two and a half centuries America has given and set many of the world standards in, science, health,education, manufacturing, business, road travel, locomotion, sea travel, space travel, computing and aviation. And I probably missed some. The US is at the apex of world diplomacy, democracy, freedom of speech and the press, & freedom of and from religion. It formed the League of Nations (later the United Nations), which isn't perfect, but hey, it's the best we(the Earth) can do at the moment. America gave all the world free GPS navigation when just twenty years ago mariners were still looking through sextants. Prolific film makers, the US has the greatest variety of cultural excellence through art, music, theater and television. Sure there's some crap too but other countries don't come close. And when it comes to weaponry, would civilian populations prefer the bad guys carpet bomb them like they did in WW11, or watch their Ministry of Defence targeted with a Tomohawk from 1000 miles away. Which window would you like that through? Despite the terrible collateral damage in Irag and Afghanistan, I'de hate to think what it would be like if the Ruski's had started the brawl. Saddam caused a million deaths in the 10 year war with Iran. That WAS over oil. Whereas you (the US)at least know where you are sending your weapons, and don't sell to anyone you can't trust. Do we know where Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, Pakistan and a fistful of other evil failed states are sending theirs?
I don't think so.

outstanding perspectives from our Aussie friend and ImaSkeptic!

Now back to the Lords work ... we must kill all the non-believers :)

...no wait, that wasnt me ... I was "channeling" the late Jerry Fallsmell. He was a better Christian than any of us and his spirit invades my brain from time to time. Well, gotta go ... I simply must microwave the neighbors children.

yes yes yes aussieatheist.....but the other "civilized" nations didn't just extinguish 100,000 civilians in iraq...freedom "from" religion only exists on paper in america...i see it every day (as a physician i see stem cell research and parenting issues quashed)...believe me, i wouldn't have 3 patients if i put "Dr.Atheist M.D. on my door...America did the other things you speak of IN SPITE of religion...and we are rapidly turning away from the enlightened thought that brought about these "health, engineering and education" virtues you mentioned...MONEY and POWER are more important in america now than ever before...god is sought to keep the money in their pockets and the power in thier grip

Aussieatheist,
YES! Thank you. The USA is the absolute, hands down, best place in the world to be and never in the history of the world has there been such a nation of freedom and oppourtunity. It is so easy to point out all of the problems with this country while forgetting all of the amazing things it has given the world. We are the world's only superpower and as such can't avoid getting involved with world affairs and of course mistakes will happen. The scientific and humanistic advances made in our nation are second to none. There are still a lot of improvements that need to take place, gay equality for one and the recent agressive intrusion of religion into public life, but America has been very good to me and my family and I wouldn't trade it for anyplace else. I'm glad to see a non USA citizen recognise what a special place America is! (I'm sitting here in our nation's capital house sitting as I type this).

Times dictate that Im all for protecting these borders....Im not for religious groups influencing policy and directing tax dollars for their supernatural moral authority claims....

...what a wonderful place this planet would be without these ideologies.....

aussie, I was wondering what the religious enviroment is like in Australia, New Zealand...if you don't mind answering. Is it like Great Britain and other European countries, a lot more secular than US?
Thanks.
(Your post was very well-written.)

I think that we're employing some lazy thinking here. Yes, America's zealot and moderate Christian communities are to blame for a wide variety of total garbage. However, I think arms sales, mercenaries, surface-to-air technology, etc., has FAR more to do with profiteers who don't necessarily fall into the religious category; at least not in any meaningful way. I would agree that religious belief is very distracting and has stolen from our society a great number of folks who would have been helpful in other arenas, were they not so consumed with, or pacified by, belief in wizards and monsters.

Unfortunately, we do sell weapons to people, causes, countries that we can not trust. We sold weapons and training to Saddam and Osama. We sent Saddam anthrax, of all things. I don't like the cowboy style of some americans, thinking they can give guns to the "lesser" evil. The "lesser" evil eventually becomes the "greater" evil. I do have some pride in many of the things our country has done, despite warmongering and cowboy policies. Religion is generally a roadblock to the greater things that could be done.

I agree with Hoyt. The religious are just a segment of the electorate that can be easily manipulated en masse by power brokers. They do most over their harm by selling their vote and lives for nothing but a few words said on behalf of their delusions.

Uhhh, we did fund weapons to Iran, Pakistan & Afghanistan.

peter this is still a great nation despite its problems.what i find ironic is that all the people who are down on america criticize the south for using its right to leave.
it was certainly more legitimate than the rebellion by the 13 colonies.
off topic a student was arrested at falwells funeral for trying to blow up protesters, police are looking for 3 more suspects.

jshanewhit,
You forgot Iran, among many other countries.

Seriously, this patriotic rant that is going on in this thread is sickening. Get the flag out of your asses.

"In the last two and a half centuries America has given and set many of the world standards in, science, health,education, manufacturing, business, road travel, locomotion, sea travel, space travel, computing and aviation."

Education? Are you kidding me? The U.S. is near the bottom of the list when it comes to education in industrialized nations. And superhighways originated in Germany, under Hitler. The first heart transplant was performed in South Africa, by a South African doctor. The first facial transplant was performed in France, by french doctors. Oh, and here's a biggie: DNA was discovered in part by Francis Crick, an English molecular biologist, and in part by Maurice Wilkins, a New-Zealand born British molecular biologist. And I'm guessing you didn't hear about Muhammad Yunus, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006 for giving loans with little or no interest to incredibly poor people in Bangladesh. His idea became known as microcredit and has spread to other countries. I believe that falls into business.

Eac
damn right we love this country.those nations that are screwed up are that way because of their own ruling elite not because americans or anyother foreigners.until they look at their people as something else than scum they will always be at the bottom.

Awwww...I actually feel sorry for the "bomb thrower"...this bomb was a dud...

The poor guy gets a chance to tell us how much he hates the country that guarantees him the right to spew his "hate speech"...and everyone informs him how wrong he is...

No, actually his post doesn't talk about how much he hates America...it's really expressing his hatred towards Christianity...

As you've admitted you've never been a Christian...no wonder you're having a hard time understanding the faith...it's human nature to be skeptical of something we don't understand...

By the way...great post Ausie...

if you love america vote for rev.fred phelps for president he has a vision for this country.

eac
I'm not promoting a patriotic rant as you say. I'm just pointing out you should be glad to live in a free country and not beat yourself up too much.
I love where I live and don't want to live in America, but let me tell you everytime we go out on our boat, I set my GPS and Uncle Sam's satellites guide me on our way. Thanks Mate !
Whenever we plan a trip I Google Earth and go there in cyberspace before we go there in reality. If i or my family get sick I go stright to - where ?- Mayo Clinic website of course. So, thanks to Bill for the internet too, I forgot that one. America saved and kept the peace in Europe TWICE last century, (oh and saved our arse in the Pacific too at enourmous expense)when in fact a more vicious nation could have and would have completely destroyed both Germany and Japan, instead of installing workable democracies. Remember Russia destroyed the fibre of every country it was put in control of after WW11. No, America, along with its Allies, including Australia, brought democracy to both those nations at huge personal and financial cost to the american people and the allied nations.
By the way us aussies invented Nicole, cement mixers on trucks, the black box for planes, and the wine cask in a box.
Sorry about the wine cask !
And a Scot living here developed Gardisal the new cervical cancer vaccine.
Next time you fly do you want to go in a Boeing (ok with RR engines) or some Aeroflot piece of shit.

Sure other countries have lists of great inventions, but the market of free western enterprise, with the economic powerhouse of US at the forefront, made their success possible.
I dont think one should let religion get in the way of enjoying a fabulous once only life on this planet - let them (religious people) believe their fantasies and let us enjoy the realities of our life.
This is not off topic. This about you beating up becasue you have a military. If you didn't have a military, someone would invade you, and us - its as simple as that. And if you didn't supply and create efficient militaria elswhere in the world, for like minded nations, some counry far more evil than the US would do it for you. I'm damn sure China and North Korea would be in control here (Australia)if it weren't for the balance of power.
James Randi for President !!
Cheers

Why are xian so freaking violent. Read this!

OFF TOPIC ALERT.

LYNCHBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- A first-year Liberty University student was arrested in what police said was a plot to detonate explosive devices Tuesday, the day of the Rev. Jerry Falwell's funeral.

Mark David Uhl's intended target is unknown, authorities said.

ABC News reported the youth told authorities he had made the bombs -- which were found in his car -- to stop protesters from disrupting Falwell's funeral.

Police received a call about 11 p.m. Monday from one of Uhl's family members, who said they had talked with him and he had "mentioned some explosive devices he had made," said Maj. Steve Hutcherson of the Campbell County, Virginia, sheriff's office.

Authorities found in Uhl's vehicle "what appeared to be about six explosive devices" that had detonation devices with them, Hutcherson said. The homemade devices were canisters with some kind of liquid inside.

A Virginia State Police bomb squad was summoned to ensure the items were safe, he said.

Uhl, 19, from Amissville, Virginia, was arrested at the home of one of his friends in Campbell County, near Lynchburg, Hutcherson said.

He was being held without bond in the Campbell County Adult Detention Center on suspicion of manufacturing explosive devices.

"Anytime you have somebody with what appears to be explosive devices, you have to take that threat seriously," Hutcherson said.

What gets me is that the "authorities" stated that the "intended target is unknown". Hey right!

Phreedy loves America like a child loves Mommy and Daddy. No matter what Mommy and Daddy do (stick them in the microwave) all is justified if Daddy or Mommy does it.

Rational people love there country like parents love their children. They realize that their children can and will f up and are ready to step in especially if they pose a danger to others.

Go suck your thumb Phreeky.

Question: If we were to fight these xian terrorists "over there" instead of here where would "over there" be. The Vatican?

aussieatheist, "America has given and set many of the world standards in, science, health,education, manufacturing, business, road travel, locomotion, sea travel, space travel, computing and aviation."

Much of that is in the past and no longer true. American health standards are among the lowest in the industrial world with 50 million people with no health coverage. See Michael Moore's new movie "Sicko".

The U.S. is far down the table on education. The U.S. doesn't manufacture much anymore which is why it hundreds of billions of dollars in trade deficit.

Road travel is a good thing? Until the oil runs out maybe? Just a few examples.

aussieatheist, "Remember Russia destroyed the fibre of every country it was put in control of after WW11" What does that mean? It is just empty rhetoric.

"Next time you fly do you want to go in a Boeing " why not an Airbus?

"the market of free western enterprise, with the economic powerhouse of US at the forefront, made their success possible." "free enterprise" is a shibboleth for what is neo-colonialism. It is the system by which the U.S. pillages the world for its own benefit.

As to weapons, here is a reminder from Ben Cohen of Ben & Jerry's: his oreo cookie demonstration.

http://www.truemajorityaction.org/fun/

And here is an updated version,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAzDH2AdCsg&mode=related&search=

The American Military/Industrial/Congressional/Media complex is forcing this colossal waste on both the American taxpayer and the rest of the world.

As to "free speech", Bush has gutted that right with the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act(almost no one knows about that one).

As to "freedom", Bush has abrogated habeus corpus. Gee, isn't America today wonderful?

To avoid possible spam filtering, I separate subjects.

On education in the good ole U.S. of A. "Stupid in America".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA&mode=related&search=

Here is a report from Down Under. "How Smart are Americans".

http://spikedhumor.com/articles/76819/How_Smart_Are_Americans.html?autoplay=true

Americans largely don't care about the rest of the world. In fact they don't know about it and they don't care. "American Idol" is enough for them.

As far as "Love it or leave it " goes I would have to move to Australia. Otherwise its kind of fun to make others wish you would leave.

bernada
Empty rhetoric? Your just trying to stir me, right? Please, read your modern European history.
Looked at 'How Smart are Americans'. You could do that questioning anywhere in the world and get just as rediculous results. Australia included.
Of course the people in any country are going to be ethnocentric.
Everyone in the free world is busy with their own small universe. We have so much to do, because we are allowed to do it. !
That's ok. With respect, Enjoy life. Ever sat on a jetty by a lake and enjoyed a bottle of wine with your partner & a CD of the Boston Philharmonic playing? Relax. We're only here for one chance, one life, enjoy!
This is a philosophical blog, after all isn't it?
I honestly believe if it wasn't for your (the US's) nuclear subs and your aircraft carrier battlegroups the world would be an even more dangerous place. And I love how fast those suckers go in reverse!
But then I thought Cher's 'If I Could Turn Back Time' on board the big 'Mo' was orgasmic (Hope I got the title right) so I guess I'm getting too old for this sort of thing.
CAB4 - did respond - may have been axed - yes we are a secular nation just 8.8% attend church regularly, about 30% declare no religion. Those in between just haven't come out yet !!
Hey Septos - come visit - we've got great beaches, and we generally don't give a hoot about anything!

BTW we have treated our native population abhorently over the last 237 years, - until the early 1960's they were not accorded the right to vote, (even tho universal suffrage was law from the early 1900's)and it was 1967 before they were included in the census. Prior to that they were considered as part of 'native fauna.' So we, along with other nations, are neither blameless nor perfect.
But our parliamentary democracy allows the freedom of speech to address these wrongs and maybe put them right.

My main concern now is to expose to James Randi the " New Advanced Magnetic Pelvic Floor Treatment" and hope I can get someone to stop these fraudsters doing a job on us.

Muuusstt get mooooorrrre chaaardonay nneeeeeddd drink eh eh eh

Really interesting comments but I see very few on point.

Point of this posting was that with the real business of America is war, how can anyone claim to live in a religiously spiritual nation. They can't.

So where is all the claims about this posting being un-patriotic comments coming from anyway? The report was positive and listed some areas where America Is Number One. That is patriotic.

It just also happens to be in subject areas that are also exactly the absolute opposite of what a religious state should be like.

The report was written by a member of the War Resister's League. Are the majority of atheists on this blog pro-war? In case you were going to ask because you couldn't tell, I am against the Iraq War of Aggression For Oil.

I guess what I am really asking is why aren't the Christians against this war for oil? How can Christians be in favor of killing their own sons in order to secure oil profits for Mobil/Exxon?

aussieatheist. Thanks for responding to nothing.

I like your arrogance, "Please, read your modern European history. "

You should just learn to read.

My forebears fought against Hitler and Tojo, so I have no lessons to learn from you about that. Of course the Aussies were among the dumb enough to engage in Vietnam. Britain at the time had some intelligent leaders and stayed out.

As to rhetoric, what does "fibre"(in the queen's English)mean? That is pure BS.

More arrogance on your part, "That's ok. With respect, Enjoy life. Ever sat on a jetty by a lake and enjoyed a bottle of wine with your partner & a CD of the Boston Philharmonic playing?"

Oh, of course an Ozzie must be the only one to have done that. But personally I don't mind going to the Paris Opera from time to time.

we are cowards...using our might on the smallest and weakest...while "having dialogue" with anyone with weapons similar to our own...i saw it 1st hand as a marine in viet nam ...i see it today in iraq....but not north korea or iraq...we are bullies and now imperialists...we have stepped back into the 19th century ...andrew jackson for president!!!!! let's bring back subjugation of the weak and non-white!!!!

err iran

Sorry Peter, I agree with your point but really have nothing further to add. When has christianity ever been peaceful in practice?


This is sort of related. Check out this story from the London Times regarding the recently released 2007 report from Amnesty International:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1829644.ece

This paragraph doesn't make me particulary proud to be an American:

"In September 2006, President Bush finally admitted what Amnesty International has long known - that the CIA had been running secret detention centres in circumstances that amount to international crimes,"

I really don't see what you guys are arguing about. Are you guys criticizing aussieatheist for saying good things about America? I'm honestly relieved to know that no everyone in the world hates us. Out of curiosity, I have visited forums on other countries news sites. It seems to me that because of our politicians, media, and this war most people in other countries think we are all crazy religious war hungry assholes. Of course we all know here that's just not true. There are a lot of us out there that are hoping for drastic changes in the near future.

I honestly think there are a lot of countries out there that are fine places to live. I think America is one of those places. Most debates on this board I understand, but in this case I'm really confused.

To the christians I live under, the war in Iraq is all about religion. They need to defeat the non-christians in the bible lands so that their god idea will return. If they are alive when that happens they are said to be the best christians of all time and will not experience death. The United States war machine is consistent with the christian's blood lust. Amusingly, the christians that I live under have been silent about the return of their god idea since it has become obvious that they were mistaken regarding a christian win in Iraq.

Christian love is a bullet in your back if you get in the way of their fantasy.

Lacy, "I really don't see what you guys are arguing about. Are you guys criticizing aussieatheist for saying good things about America?"

For myself, I am criticizing aussieatheist for saying things that are either not true about America or are not good. What has America done since WWII that is good?

Basically it has just been extending and reinforcing its fascist domination.

you think america is pushy now....wait for one generation when the are 600 million of us...with continually deteriorating healthcare, infrastructure,educational system and personal freedoms...and no gasoline left!!!.....then we will be twice as big and twice as crazy

It's interesting seeing people in heated discussion over the merits and effects of US policy in recent history.

My opinion is somewhere in the middle. Yes the US has done a lot of good and has a lot to offer the world, but perhaps it's not quite as good and doesn't have quite as much to offer as its citizens might presume.

My experience is that the general US populace is quite insular compared with other countries in which I have lived. They (US) tend to believe their own rhetoric that the US is the best place in the world. This is simplistic thinking as every society has its problems, its good points and its bad. The US is not immune and while the mix found in the US may offer some people the best environment on offer, it will likewise not be the best on offer for others.

2c

For a country with so many followers of Jesus and his teachings, I see very few Americans who actually ACT like Jesus or follow his teachings.

Now I'm no biblical scholar, but it seems to me that God was a pretty mean dude according to his messages - kind of vengeful and spiteful - a bit of an egomaniac, too. Jesus was a much more mellow dude, teaching the whole love thy neighbor idea.

I guess Americans follow their God, not their Jesus - even though they are supposed to be the same guy.

America does like to think it's the "god" of the world. It makes no pretenses to being the jesus of the world.

hooray for the nazis....they gave us the mercedes, the superhighway, the rocket and medical research that money can't buy...indeed it must have been a great society...if what you invent and what you can mass produce makes you a good country if someone , somewhere finds it useful or entertaining...then let us in the U S be praised for american idol, entertainment tonight and xbox 360......"patriotism professes the opposite of common christian brotherhood".. Mark Twain

aussieatheist wrote,

So, thanks to Bill for the internet too, I forgot that one.

Bill? For the internet? I don't think so.

Thanks for the positive comments you make concerning the United States but, I'm not sure all of them are deserved. The United States wasn't concerned with the problems in Europe prior to Peril Harbor. Then as now, the United States government gets involved in wars in other countries so that the wars won't be fought here, helping anyone else is just a side effect. The rich and powerful in the United States generally exempt themselves from combat in the wars. Their goal is to protect their financial interests and family assets. The war in Iraq was also motivated by the religious delusion of the shrub and other christians.
Notice how slow the United States responses to atrocities in poor countries that don't contain oil or something the wealthy, powerful or christians in the United States want.

imaskeptic
what is wrong with subjugating the weak and the nonwhite it beats the hell out of being subjugated.and you know it would happened if we give our little brown brothers the chance.
rna2dna why should we waste blood and money on nations that don't have oil.foreign policy is supposed to look out for the national interest not try and save the world.

EAC,
"Seriously, this patriotic rant that is going on in this thread is sickening. Get the flag out of your asses."

Have you ever lived any part of your life outside the USA? Even in a First World nation like those of Western Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, or New Zealand? Go try it for five years and then tell me that compared to America they don't suck. Don't get me wrong, Australia is my second favourite nation after the USA but the difference between life here and life there is much bigger than most native born Americans realise. The standard of living in these countries is shockingly low compared to the USA, government intrusion into personal lives is at a level unacceptable to most Americans, your personal options are limited, and contrary to popular belief the locals aren't nearly as intellectual as you have been taught to believe. Stupidity is in no way endemic to America. My parents came here from Britain and my best friend's mother is from Australia and we all agree that wild horses couldn't drag us kicking and screaming back to our resepective nation's of origin. Life in America is just that damn good and we are still the undisputed leaders in the world in innovation and advancements. Perhaps we are the number one seller of arms in the world becasue we are the wealthiest nation and the only superpower. It's not as if Denmark or New Zealand could sell these weapons even if they had the motivation to do so becasue they just don't have the resources that we do.

alex i glad you added your input and i'm sure you agree we should unite america,britain,australia and canada in a empire strong enough to rule the world.

alex,
Believe it or not, I'm actually not a stupid hick that never travelled outside my own town. Yeah, I have been to other parts of the world. My parents are not Americans. Shocking, yes? They came over here from Europe and their attitude is far different from yours and your family's. They don't believe America is the greatest place in the world. Actually, my mother would argue that there were more freedoms in Germany. My sister lives in Canada now and she has a lot more freedoms than we do. Hell, my father's siblings (who also live in the U.S. and Canada) would argue that in communist Hungary they were happiest because they had everything. (Hungary is no longer communist of course.) So your condescension is unwarranted.

Yeah, no place is perfect, but stop claiming the U.S. is when there are a lot of problems with it. Like HeatheNZ said, for some people it doesn't offer what they want so it isn't the best place. For me, that's true.

well said alex

Aussie,
I really don't see how the U.S. was so kind when dealing with Japan during WW2. There's a pretty short documentary that I'll try and find for you that shows what happened preceeding the atomic bombs and immediately following them. The first bomb probably shouldn't have happened since Japan was already throwing out hints that they were going to surrender. The only thing stopping them was the fear that they would not be able to keep their emperor, a symbol that was very important to them. And the second bomb was completely unnecessary since Japan didn't really have time to respond to the first one. If they had been able to see what it was they would have surrendered immediately.

Lacy,
My problem is that what Aussie said was not entirely true and creditted too much. Basically, it sounded like a history lesson we used to get in elementary school about how great the U.S. is. No, I don't have a problem with the people of this country, just the ones who are so blindly patriotic that they can't even admit the problems with this country and some of its policies, past and present.

evil
So, after you finish your education, are you planning to relocate outside the US?

karen,
Yes, provided I can afford it. Honestly, I wish I could go outside the U.S. for my education, but I goofed off during college until now, so my grades aren't the best. I could actually get it for free in Germany because of citizenship, but my german isn't quite good enough. Plus I want this relationship with my boyfriend to continue and I'm not so sure his mother would be happy with me "stealing him away" to another country. I could still go to Canada for education though, but residency takes so long to work out and I'm not sure if I'll get cheaper tuition without having the residency.

evil
Well, how far are you from your degree?
What if you took a year off, to either gain Canadian citizenship, or live a year in Germaany working an odd job and reinforcing the language, then picking up where you left off?

Or wouldn't your credits transfer?

Oh, and assuming you could resolve the boyfriend issue.

karen,
That is very tempting. My biggest fear is that I'll like the "free life" too much and not want to finish school. :) I'm really not sure where I want to go though. I really do like Canada a lot and I would be closer to my family. At the same time, Germany just has a nice feel to me and I would be closer to that part of my family and I could get more in touch with that part of my heritage. I've always felt more German anyways. The real question is, which place has better food?

alexatheist, "The standard of living in these countries is shockingly low compared to the USA, government intrusion into personal lives is at a level unacceptable to most Americans, your personal options are limited, and contrary to popular belief the locals aren't nearly as intellectual as you have been taught to believe."

Since the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act, Americans have no privacy. If you think you do, you are deluded.Stupidity is in no way endemic to America.

"Stupidity is in no way endemic to America." That must explain why only 13% of Americans accept the theory or evolution while in most European countries it is about 80%.

"Life in America is just that damn good and we are still the undisputed leaders in the world in innovation and advancements." Bull crap.

That applies to some privileged people. Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich to see how the other half lives.

What innovation and advancement? Innovation in weapons and advancement in screwing the world's population?

Americans(some)only live well because they steal resources from all around the world. They think that is normal, when they manage to think at all.

evil
Well, I don't know much about Canadian food, but in Germany, you'd have access to the entire European continent for cuisine. :)

ON topic, incase anyone gets didgruntled at evil and me for having a personal convo:

IN GOD WE TRUST! But we serve him with guns. You want yours supersized?

karen,
I do love that in the small towns in Germany they still have butcher shops and bakeries where people get their meat and bread. Sure there are the grocery stores too, but people usually get meat from the butcher. Although Montreal has a pretty wide array of food too and parts of it almost have the feel of a European town.

bernarda,
A lovely point you bring up. The poor almost always get the short end of the stick here. It's sad that so many people go on and on about helping the poor in Africa but don't mention a word about the poor in their own country.

evil,

I understand what you are saying. I guess I'm just embarrassed by the way people in other countries view Americans. I think Bush and his right wing fundies have given America a bad image. For this they have a negative opinion of all Americans and I hate that. There are intelligent people in this country. The problem is that few of these people a in any position of power.

Lacy,
I was actually quite impressed with Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela. He's one of those people that realizes that Americans are not "evil," only President Bush is, and all of his "little helpers."
I understand that embarrassment too. Yeah, maybe a lot of people did vote for Bush, but there are still plenty of intelligent people in this country that are trying to make a difference. I just wish they had louder voices.

Alex,

Oh, I do feel I need to jump in here.

Have you ever lived any part of your life outside the USA? Even in a First World nation like those of Western Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia, or New Zealand?

Do New Zealand, Australia and England count?

Go try it for five years and then tell me that compared to America they don't suck.

They don't suck. (Not tried Aussie for five years though). Of course it depends what you are looking for. Each place has things that the others lack, and different individuals will feel a differing affinity to different places.

Don't get me wrong, Australia is my second favourite nation after the USA but the difference between life here and life there is much bigger than most native born Americans realise. The standard of living in these countries is shockingly low compared to the USA

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. Sure you have more 'stuff' in the US, but I'd strongly dispute your characterization of the extent of any difference

government intrusion into personal lives is at a level unacceptable to most Americans

Perhaps true in the UK, but NZ and Aussie are, in my experience, less intrusive than the US, if only because the govt machinery is so much smaller.

your personal options are limited, and contrary to popular belief the locals aren't nearly as intellectual as you have been taught to believe.

Opportunities are limited to the extent that the economy and population is a lot smaller (esp in Aus and NZ). Intellectualism is certainly spread thin in all four societies, but I think the US might be the most homogenus in that respect (personal observation that may be totally wrong)

Stupidity is in no way endemic to America. My parents came here from Britain and my best friend's mother is from Australia and we all agree that wild horses couldn't drag us kicking and screaming back to our resepective nation's of origin.

I'll happily go back when it suites me to enjoy the things that I am unable to enjoy in the US. I'll miss many things in the US, but nowhere on this planet are you going to find everything you desire.

Life in America is just that damn good and we are still the undisputed leaders in the world in innovation and advancements.

At least if you read and believe the American press.

Alex

I lived in Canada for five years. Loved every day of it. Their standard of living and overall happiness is far superior to that of the US. I suggest you read the following article

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/052307G.shtml

An infirmity of nationalism is exceptionalism. Technologically, culturally and historically, this sense of uniqueness is understandable and should be shared and respected.

But with Christianity as its vehicle, American exceptionalism utilizes supernaturalist explanations to sanctify its otherwise natural, distinctive nature and accomplishment. This foolish and dangerous sense of superiority is common throughout the world. But it more of an anomaly in developed democracies.

America is superior militarily. But if the premise of "might makes right" is one of religious self-righteousness, you may as well
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammo"!

Tuen

"Praise the Lord and pass the ammo" ... you just have to listen to ol'Charles 'Mozes' 'NRA' Heston and you can hear that sentiment.

It's real sad as well as true

For all the breast-thumping nationalists... I don't care if you're theist, agnostic or atheist...but you would do well to pipe down a bit ... the overly nationalists have never done any good and if anything else always were the ones holding there country back.

I know it's very popular in the States to say, think and believe that the USA is the best country. That it is the only true democracy. That it is the home of the brave and the free. One would do well to actually look around.

The fact is that it isn't the best, nor home of the bravest or the most free. It is the home of the most theistic repressed in the 1st world.

The fallacy of believing that it's the only country with freedom of speech is belied at each and every George W. trip.

And no, I don't hate America, I married an WI lady who not only moved to Europe, she even persuaded her parents to retire over here because life is more pleasurable as well as affordable for working class pensioners then in the States.
Neither her nor they regret it.

We may not have the huge malls all over the place...then again it also means that there are indeed still independent bakers, butchers, fish vendors, fruit vendors etc.. who all serve fresh items. When is the last time you were able to eat fish freshly caught that day (or even week) on bread that actually did only come out of the oven?

Don't forget that the good christian George W. has made that the strong dollar went from being worth 0.87 Euro to a weak Euro being worth 1.34 USD. But we all should believe that the US economy is booming just like we all should believe that God converses directly with the US president.

That petrol costs over here in Belgium (which doesn't have oil or even gas) ±1 Euro/liter taxes included in comparison to ±3.5 USD/gallon taxes not included alone should give one an idea of how badly off Europe is.

And don't get me started about GPS and how the USA has been trying ever so hard to prevent the EU to launch it's independent version of it because if would mean that the rest of the world wouldn't be dependent on the US and that is how much the US likes competition and freedom.

Sorry for the rant folks...just get unnerved by silly jingoistic flag waving, no matter which flag it is or who is waving it.

Pkite

Yeah, Heston's amygdala bears an uncanny resemblance to a howitzer.

It's great to see a spirited debate like this among atheists. I sometimes think if phreedm weren't around this blog would just be a bunch of people agreeing with each other, and that's not very interesting. So it's good to see that there can be such a lively debate without phreedm necessarily stirring the pot :-)

eac wrote: "I was actually quite impressed with Hugo Chavez, president of Venezuela. He's one of those people that realizes that Americans are not "evil," only President Bush is, and all of his "little helpers." "

Ok, Chavez is a nutjob, but I had to LOL at his whole "Bush is the Devil. It smelled of sluphur, right here we he was standing" spiel. Classic!

Off topic but did you see the story of the good little xian Liberty Uni student who was arrested for having bombs in his car which he planned to use against protesters at jerry falwell's funeral? Here is the link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3201543&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

BTW Pkite if I lived in Belgium I wouldn't be waving a flag either. It's hard to get excited or patriotic over being a citizen of what is probably the most boring nation in Western Europe. Come on over and I will be happy to show you all of the neighbourhood bakeries and fresh fish markets that abound here in Washington DC where my brother lives and we can even find French and Belgian groceries owned and operated by ex-pats who understand just how special being an American really is. Waffles and pomme frits for everyone!

HeathNZ,
I can speak only of Britain and not really NZ but I stand by all of my assertions made about life in the UK being vastly inferior to the USA. Britain sucks. I think the fact that you are here voluntarily and not in NZ says a lot about how you feel about the USA.

What,
Interesting article. I have been to Canada but never lived there so maybe I shouldn't have lumped it in with the UK. Having said that, the climate alone would preclude me from ever living north of the border. Also, I just don't think that Canada offers the same opportunities to entrpreneurs as does America.

Perhaps if my family and I were not living the American Dream to the extent that we do I might not be so harsh in my criticism of other developed countries. Life here has been exceptionally good to us. I think a good measure of the success of any country is the number of peoples who wish to live there.

Alex

I live "the dream" as well and I tell you it's an illusion. The science of happiness is a relatively new field and my testimony can only be considered anecdotal but I think that article is dead-on and in total argreement with my experience.


Pkite

I agree! What is up with the nationalist silliness?

"freedom of speech", "free press" in America?

http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639

The U.S. is tied for number 53, along with Togo, Croatia, and Botswana.

"The United States (53rd) has fallen nine places since last year, after being in 17th position in the first year of the Index, in 2002. Relations between the media and the Bush administration sharply deteriorated after the president used the pretext of “national security” to regard as suspicious any journalist who questioned his “war on terrorism.” The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 US states, refuse to recognise the media’s right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism.

Freelance journalist and blogger Josh Wolf was imprisoned when he refused to hand over his video archives. Sudanese cameraman Sami al-Haj, who works for the pan-Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera, has been held without trial since June 2002 at the US military base at Guantanamo, and Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein has been held by US authorities in Iraq since April this year."

Since Bush has been in power, the U.S. has dropped from 17 to 53! Three times worse.

The freedom of speech and freedom of press in the US has become severely preverted. So preverted that the worse president in history of our country could sell a war based on intelligence spun of whole cloth to the absolute stupidist and laziest media this country has ever know ... and ever will know for if this continues much longer our country will not.

Notice that the word preverted is not spelled correctly. I had to do so to get it by the polyanna nanny software that this blog has implemented to filter and restrict our speech. I expect more from AA get rid of the nannyware!

Shit --- ShineOla

Just checking to see if the nannyware knows the difference.

reason wrote:

rna2dna why should we waste blood and money on nations that don't have oil.foreign policy is supposed to look out for the national interest not try and save the world.

The oil isn't ours and we have no ethical right to demand that it be given to us. Killing people for oil that we do not own is very wrong. Don't worry about the United States saving the world, as long as the christians have power nothing of the kind will be happening.

bernarda wrote:

Since Bush has been in power, the U.S. has dropped from 17 to 53! Three times worse.

The power of christianity in action. The christian god idea would fall apart if everyone knew the Truth. By the way, thanks for your informative comments.

A question for everyone:
We have witnessed christians excussing 'W' for crime after crime. I have absolutely no doubt that they would shred an atheist for committing the same crimes. If the atheists were in power would we protect a crimminal in order to keep our power as the christians have done?

Alex

I think the fact that you are here voluntarily and not in NZ says a lot about how you feel about the USA.

And what exactly would that be? I'm ambivalent as to which has the better quality of life for me. There are pros and cons to each. The good thing about being here is that when I get frustrated with life in the US I know I have the option of going elsewhere and leaving this rat race. The bad thing is that if (when) I do make that change I will no longer have greener pastures to look upon.

I guess my motto is to make the most out of what my current location has to offer, and if I decide to move on it should be to move to new opportunities rather than to move away from frustrations.

Damn christians could have at least taught me how to spell ;)
excussing = excusing
crimminal = criminal

Thank you rna2dna. I wanted to comment on alexatheist's post about Belgium. Brussels is anything but a boring city. From there, it is easy to take a day trip or more to Bruggge, the Venice of the north, or even spend a romantic interlude there.

http://www.translink.co.uk/resources/shortbreaks2005/brugge_north.html

Some pictures.

http://www.freefoto.com/tag/Venice+of+the+North

As was mentioned, you can also visit Ghent.

What wrote: "Notice that the word preverted is not spelled correctly. I had to do so to get it by the polyanna nanny software that this blog has implemented to filter and restrict our speech. I expect more from AA get rid of the nannyware!

You can write "fuck" but you can't write the non-phonetic conventional spelling of "bees-chee-al-i-tee"? (not that I'm an advocate of this practice) My question is: by whose standards is this blog reviewed for censorship?

Dave, don't get me wrong. I'm most grateful for your informative and important blog. Is it within your power(or desire) to adjust censorship standards beyond "restricted"? You don't need "dirty" or offensive words to be obnoxious and profane. Just listen to George Bush.

Tuen and What
The words that are filtered have to do with some spamming problems we were having a while back. It's not censorship of certain "dirty" or "unsavory" words. It just disallows ones that were key words in spam posts.

If a certain word you want to use is refused, just get creative with the spelling or substitute a word. Or intentionally misspell it. It's a nuisance, but it's better than having the place littered with ads for porn and sex enhancement sites.

Thanks Bernarda

For the informative links about freedom of speech as well as the Belgian pics.

I do understand alexatheist though. In his mind anything but the USA is bad, boring, stupid, backward, uncivilised etc. etc. etc...

let's see ...
Ghent - history goes back to the Stone age - birth place of Charlemagne - also place where King Edward III was crowned king of France - and where the US & the UK signed the treaty of Ghent

Brugges - the beautiful - 'nuff said.

Antwerp - world class harbor (4th biggest cargo turnover) - Diamond trading capital of the world with 70 percent of the world's diamond trading

Don't forget that this little country of 10 mil. people has had a big impact on the world let alone on the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Belgian_Americans
Without a certain Belgian guy named Sax the American musical art form that is called Jazz wouldn't be quite the same.

All in all it's a surreal country - with lots of faults - a sordid fascist undercurrent - lots of catholic baggage - and a social1st inclination. Did I mention surreal?
;)

Karen,

Thanks for the clarification. If the conditions and repercussions are such, I agree.

But theoretically, this compromise is still not just, only circumstantial.

I certainly can't fathom how, but maybe someday the geeks will develop the specificity to handle this problem.

I had a french teacher from Belgium in high school. She used to show me all these beautiful pictures of Belgium and the history of it. It was really interesting, not at all boring. She talked about the food there a lot too. I haven't been to Belgium myself, but I have been to Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, so I'm quite curious to go to Belgium and make a comparison of the chocolates. :) From what I've seen, Belgium has some of the most beautiful and complex architecture, which is a lot more than you can say about the U.S.

belgium does deserve credit for development of the congo but they should be ashamed for turning it over to the natives.
why are so many of you reluctant to acknowledge the greatness of western culture.no we are not angels but no on one is.as i have said before when foreign elites stops treating their own people like scum their nations will enter the 1world we are not holding anyone down.

Happy Memorial Day. God bless your souls.

Christ is the way
Happy Memorial Day and may Sod bless your Goals.

(jees-bus)Christ is the way to a destructive fantasy,

Happy Memorial Day weekend.

Please take your disgusting fantacy some place private.

What wrote,

Question: If we were to fight these xian terrorists "over there" instead of here where would "over there" be. The Vatican?

Or, the xtian blogs and such too. Theoretically christians do have brains so it should be possible for some of them to learn. At least they will have to admit that we exist.

Sorry:( What only wrote the first paragraph.

pete you said;

Really interesting comments but I see very few on point.

Point of this posting was that with the real business of America is war, how can anyone claim to live in a religiously spiritual nation. They can't.

So where is all the claims about this posting being un-patriotic comments coming from anyway? The report was positive and listed some areas where America Is Number One. That is patriotic.

It just also happens to be in subject areas that are also exactly the absolute opposite of what a religious state should be like.

The report was written by a member of the War Resister's League. Are the majority of atheists on this blog pro-war? In case you were going to ask because you couldn't tell, I am against the Iraq War of Aggression For Oil.

I guess what I am really asking is why aren't the Christians against this war for oil? How can Christians be in favor of killing their own sons in order to secure oil profits for Mobil/Exxon?
05/23/07 @ 09:07"

can't believe you ain't figured it out, my friend. it is precisly how a christian (and all other superstitious nations) MUST AND DO act. always have, always will, unless or until superstition is taken out of our governments. i mean totally out as the american founding fathers of this country ment it to be. "what a religious state should be like" ?? geez man read the christian bible, the islamic quran (if you can get a translation of it) it's all there pete. the hatred bigitry, war. through out history and as we speak. no superstition can not exist without a following who must by ablolute dogmatic law "believe" over any rational thought, that they and only they have the one & only "truth". ie. the very first of the christian 10 commandents. all others to be hated and distroyed. the islamic fanitics make no secret of it as you may have noticed in the daily news. and "jesus" guided bush into this bull shit, "premtive" iraqie war. oh yes we can certainly and in all honesty claim to live in a religiosly, spirtual nation. which trumps reasion & sanity every time.

America is not a Christian Nation. It is a nation that was founded partially on Biblical ideas and thought. It was founded by individuals who were largely believers in some form of Christianity, though some were deists.

The fact that we are founded on Christian principles does not in any way subvert the right of some (Christian or not) to manufacture and sell weapons if that is there inclination. If there are folks who are claiming Christ as their savior who are selling weapons to our enemies, one would have to question their love of Christ.

If there are Christians who manufacture, sell, or who are employed by those in the business of selling armaments, this should not be seen as hypocrisy. The Bible is generally seen as approving of the use of weapons in self defense. Christ admonished one of the disciples to take a sword with him on a missionary journey.

As to the nationalistic zeal above, I offer a few painful cliches'.

1. There are no perfect countries, and if you find one, don't go there. Cause it won't be perfect anymore.

2. Some folks can look at a rose bush and fail to see the thorns for the beauty, others will fail to see the roses for the thorns.

3. Anywhere you go in the world you go in search of greener grass, you will undoubtedly be disappointed. Ultimately, wherever you go, you will have to take you with you.

I have traveled on 5 continents, and I can find much to love everywhere. I prefer the US. I even prefer W. Los Angeles, though some hate WLA. One way to judge the way people feel about a place is to see how much they are willing to pay to live there. WLA wins. The USA wins. The rest of the world is still beating down our doors to get in, even with the steep cost of entry.

quixote:

The fact that we are founded on Christian principles does not in any way subvert the right of some (Christian or not) to manufacture and sell weapons if that is there inclination.

Say what? Which principles? These?
Who sails the ships out of Boston
Ladened with bibles and rum?
Who drinks a toast to the Ivory Coast?
Hail Africa, the slavers have come
New England with bibles and rum - 1776, the musical.

Seriously, which ones? All men being created equal certainly wasn't 1 such 'principle'.
I'd cite article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, or Jefferson's letter to Fortescue, but I'd prefer you look those up yourself.

so quix. not a christian nation?? you seem well read. you know what the population of the us is?? you know what percentage claims belief in one or another or the christian superstitions??

you aware that the bloody muslem superstitions originated from the same place as christianity??

maybe you're one of the almost nonexistent (in my experience) xtians who can actually ask or answer simple questions?? be careful here quix. god says you can not do that....

KA,

Are you asserting that there is any law which did or does exist which makes it illegal to manufacture weapons? To export them? You'll need to site your sources with links.

bud,

Definitions are everything to a debate, and the definition of a Christian nation is no exception. Does the percent of population who claim Christ determine the definition? Do the founding documents? Do we look to our current laws and institutions?

Most conservative (politically) Christians would like nothing better than for the US to be considered a Christian nation. They would want the third approach. They would be foolish to want such a thing. We want our laws and institutions to be secular. What everyone wants is for their ideas to be heard as to how those laws and institutions (paid for by taxpayers) work.

I understand that minorities don't feel they have as much voice in that process as do majorities. It is part of American exceptionalism that minorities have as much voice as they do. But it is hard to imagine a system where the 10% are able to effect the establishment of rules to the same extent as the 90%. I prefer the tyranny of the majority to the tyranny of the minority. I pray for balance.

quixote:

Are you asserting that there is any law which did or does exist which makes it illegal to manufacture weapons? To export them? You'll need to site your sources with links.

No I wasn't. Re-read my post again.
I'll repeat: which principles?

Quixote77

I prefer the tyranny of the majority to the tyranny of the minority. I pray for balance.

This is plausible if you happen to be a member of the majority. Once you are no longer in that club you will quickly see what poor judgment you are advocating.

Incidentally, pray for anything you like. If you want to actually make any influence you might want to actually do or write something. Your contribution to this blog will have infinitely more influence than a million prayers.