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Post details: Atheists oppose Arms sales to fundamentalists

08/24/07

09:55:43 am, Categories: Announcements [A], 345 words

Atheists oppose Arms sales to fundamentalists

For more information, please contact:
Ellen Johnson, President (908) 276-7300
Dave Silverman, Communications Director (732) 648-9333
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: August 24, 2007
ATHEISTS WARN: BUSH PLAN TO FURTHER MILITARIZE MIDDLE EAST FUELS RELIGIOUS TERRORISM
AMERICAN ATHEISTS cautioned today that President Bush's plan to sell $20 billion of advanced military hardware to Saudi Arabia and five other Persian Gulf states, and provide more aid to Israel threatens to further destabilize the region and fuel religion-based terrorism.
The New York Times last month described Bush's maneuver: "(T)o contain the growing power of Iran in the region and demonstrate that, no matter what happens in Iraq, Washington remains committed to its longtime Arab allies."
Ellen Johnson, President of American Atheists, said that further military assistance "can only add to the instability of this already volatile region," and called for an international arms embargo. Johnson added that the U.S. needs to pay less attention to preparing the Arab countries for war, and instead join an international effort to develop the area and create economic prosperity, and "grow" secular institutions.
"Creating jobs and economic opportunity, securing full rights for the region's women, encouraging an authentic civil society with personal rights -- all of this is needed to challenge the rampant clerical terrorism that plagues the Middle East."
Dave Silverman, Communications Director for American Atheists, said that western aid is fueling the growth of religious chauvinism throughout the area. "In Saudi Arabia, the religious police, ('Committee to Promote Virtue and Prevent Vice') drive new American jeeps, and King Abdullah declared last year that he supports the Koran as his nation's constitution and Islam as the state religion."
"This type of military aid is propping up dictatorial, theocratic regimes. These weapons can easily fall into the hands of religion-based terrorist who are even more ruthless in their desire to play the role of being "God's warriors,' " added Mr. Silverman.

AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.
American Atheists, Inc.
P. O. Box 5733
Parsippany, NJ 07054-6733
Tel.: (908) 276-7300
Fax: (908) 276-7402

30 comments

Comments:

Comment from: TXatheist [Member] · http://txatheist.blogspot.com

Great news that you brought forward unfortunately Bush is snuggled up to Saudi Arabia because of oil. Wasn't there news a few weeks ago China was selling weapons to a middle east country?

08/24/07 @ 10:44

Comment from: Dangerman [Member]

wow.

I don't know what good calling for an arms embargo will do though. Remember, according to the Bush family none of us are citizens.

08/24/07 @ 11:08

Comment from: bernarda [Member]

The problem not mention is the Bush regime's plan to GIVE 30 billion dollars of weapons to war criminal Israel over ten years.

The racist terrorist Israelis already have the H Bomb.

Why should American taxpayers give one cent to Israeli war criminals? That makes accessories to Israel's crimes against humanity.

There should be a law of no aid, no trade, no travel to terrorist Israel.

08/24/07 @ 13:33

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

bernarda,
AMEN!

08/24/07 @ 13:37

Comment from: dawnisis [Member] · http://aiaproject.blogspot.com/

bernarda,

I agree 100%! I am so sick of our government giving weapons and trillions of dollars of OUR money to start the next world war in the middle east. I guess when the radioactive dust settles halliburton will go in and proclaim the entire middle east as Halliburtria.

IMO, the biggest mistake humanity has EVER made was establishing Israel, i.e. radical jews smack in the middle of radical muslims. Brilliant, why didn't that work out? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, seems so obvious that the muslims would great them with open arms and say "hey, why don't you steal our homes and more and more land" then give them hugs and teddy bears.

Hahahahaha

If there is a silver lining in this death and war it's that more and more people will question the role of religion in society by witnessing ONCE AGAIN the murder of millions of people all because of their stupid "holy" books.

08/24/07 @ 15:05

Comment from: Darren [Member] · http://nocoercion.com

Wow--lots of Israel-hatin'. No argument there, but what about everyone else? If we had a policy of no government aid/arms to ANY country, we'd be in pretty good shape right now. Probably lots of conflicts would have been averted around the world. We wouldn't have blown so much tax payer money (well, probably would have blown it on something else I guess), and we probably wouldn't even have had 9/11 and other terrorist attacks, which conveniently enough, have led to our becoming a police state. We just need a policy of no official involvement (other than diplomats occasionally having coffee together). And whatever private citizens or groups want to do vis a vis other countries is totally up to them.

08/24/07 @ 15:40

Comment from: dawnisis [Member] · http://aiaproject.blogspot.com/

We just need a policy of no official involvement

That is China's policy and it is definately working out for them. They are just raking in the dough and building their economy and here we are borrowing trillions from them to fight wars we started by having a foriegn policy that sticks its nose into every country's business instead of leaving them alone to work out their own issues. And why do we do that? To price fix. Never thinking long term only short sighted immediate financial reasoning.

08/24/07 @ 15:48

Comment from: Martina [Member]

"IMO, the biggest mistake humanity has EVER made was establishing Israel, i.e. radical jews smack in the middle of radical muslims"

Well said!

BTW, did anyone see CNN-s God's Warriors last night.. I especially enjoyed the jew-texan part LOL

08/24/07 @ 16:08

Comment from: bernarda [Member]

Darren, the U.S. is not giving $3 billion in arms to everyone.

Dawnisis, you are quite right about China. They are no dummies, unlike the Bush regime.

08/24/07 @ 16:32

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

Darren:

Wow--lots of Israel-hatin'. No argument there, but what about everyone else?

The concern is that israel and America's support of israel represents the single largest threat to world peace and stability. When the thermonuclear bombs start dropping it will be as a direct consequence of zionist arrogance.
I am also concerned about the threat of nuclear exchange between hindu India and muslim Pakistan but it pales in comparison to the threat posed by israel. I don't want to die in a flash of atomic annhilation because of other people's incompatible religious claims.

08/24/07 @ 16:35

Comment from: dawnisis [Member] · http://aiaproject.blogspot.com/

Well put, alexatheist.

I don't hate Israel, I just think it was a stupid idea based solely on the "bible" which will end up killing millions.

All religions are dangerous.

08/24/07 @ 17:08

Comment from: bernarda [Member]

dawnisis, I can agree with you. One of the additional problems is "framing". I am pro-Palestinian. Therefore I am necessarily anti-zionist and anti-Israel. It has nothing to do with "hate", just politics and justice.

But the zionists have succeeded in framing the debate as "anti-Israel", if not "anti-semite".

For me, everyone who supports Israel is anti-Palestinian. So I usually try to put things back in order. After all, Palestinians were there before any zionist.

08/24/07 @ 17:58

Comment from: dawnisis [Member] · http://aiaproject.blogspot.com/

bernarda, we are in total agreement. On political message boards any time I have shared my views regarding Israel I have immediately been accused of being anti-semite, which is just a cop-out so no one can actually discuss in a logical way why the whole notion of, as I said earlier, putting radical jews in the middle of muslims was just a BAD idea.

08/24/07 @ 18:13

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

The label of ant semitism is the best tool of manipulation used by the zionists and effectivley stops any meaningful discussion of the issue. Global guilt over what happened in WWII Germany has been exploited and greatly exaggerated in order to further a very specific political goal. The jew Norman Finkelstein wrote the book "The Holocaust Industry" which lays it out very nicely.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=3

08/24/07 @ 18:34

Comment from: dawnisis [Member] · http://aiaproject.blogspot.com/

alexatheist,

Thanks for the link, I will certainly pick up the book.

The fact of the matter is genocide happens, concentration camps, killing fields, etc. We aren't bequeathing native americans China because that doesn't make sense, yet somehow the jews, because they exploited their situation after the holocaust, and imo continue to exploit the holocaust have been given more money, land (on a continent where the holocaust didn't even occur) and more miltary support than ANY other group in the history of the world and how do they repay the world? By taking more and more and demanding more and more, lobbying OUR congresspeople for OUR money.

Crazy, just crazy.

08/24/07 @ 18:57

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

Crazy, just crazy.

That's the short definition of religion.

08/24/07 @ 19:09

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

AMERICAN ATHEISTS cautioned today that President Bush's plan to sell $20 billion of advanced military hardware to Saudi Arabia and five other Persian Gulf states, and provide more aid to Israel threatens to further destabilize the region and fuel religion-based terrorism.

I hope Ellen doesn't quit her day job...

Everyone on this board is so filled with hatred towards Israel and the USA you fail to realize...arms sale's is the main source of income for North Korea, France, Russia and China...

If they don't buy them from us...they'll get them from someone else...

08/24/07 @ 19:53

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

If they don't buy them from us...they'll get them from someone else...

...and that makes it right?

08/24/07 @ 20:12

Comment from: dawnisis [Member] · http://aiaproject.blogspot.com/

phreedom wrote:

they'll get them from someone else

Wow, by that logic I should start slinging crack rock in my spare time, cuz if I don't someone else will.

Absolutely no sense of responsibility, or morality.

People die with our weapons, innocent people...

08/24/07 @ 20:33

Comment from: Darren [Member] · http://nocoercion.com

The concern is that israel and America's support of israel represents the single largest threat to world peace and stability. When the thermonuclear bombs start dropping it will be as a direct consequence of zionist arrogance.

Fair enough. They do pose a disproportionate risk (and get a disproportionate amount of help from us, if I'm not mistaken).

08/24/07 @ 21:26

Comment from: stilhorn [Member]

..arms sale's is the main source of income for North Korea, France, Russia and China...

whats wrong with France? other than there attitude

08/24/07 @ 21:34

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

they tend to be smelly too...garlic, body odour, and cigaretter smoke does not a nice bouquet garni make...

08/24/07 @ 23:01

Comment from: bernarda [Member]

Here is a commentary on why American policy in the MidEast is so twisted.
"What Candidates Should Say About Israel" from TPM Cafe.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/aug/24/what_candidates_need_to_say_on_the_middle_east

"One more thing. Reading the candidates statements on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict issued so far, I see that they tend to focus only on what Palestinians need to do to end the conflict. They must agree to live in peace with Israel, extirpate the terrorists, accept all previous agreements with Israel, build democratic institutions, clean up their textbooks, monitor hate speech in mosques etc, etc. That is usually just for starters. As for Israel, it need not do anything. The candidates do not mention the illegal outposts, the settlements, the checkpoints, or even the occupation itself. It is as if the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one in which one side is all victim and the other all perpetrator. This, of course, bears no resemblance to reality and the candidates know it."

Arms sales are usually questionable, but in evaluating relative risks just ask: in the last 60 years, as bad as the Saudi Government is, how many countries has it attacked, invaded, and occupied?

Zero I think, though now the U.S. is encouraging it to aid Sunni militias in Iraq.

Israel has attacked, invaded, and/or occupied Egypt(twice), Palestine(twice), Syria, Lebanon(twice), Iraq. In last year's attack on Lebanon, it killed over 1,000 Lebanese civilians and dropped over a million cluster bombs(figure from Israeli sources).

Of course Saudi Arabia is a horrible brutal theocratic feudal regime, so why isn't the U.S. trying to "bring democracy" and "human rights" there? There is no push for regime change in this case.

08/25/07 @ 03:33

Comment from: cry4turtles [Member]

I am also concerned about the threat of nuclear exchange between hindu India and muslim Pakistan

Pakistan just fired a nuclear capable missle that can travel 220 miles. Wonder why?

08/25/07 @ 08:25

Comment from: stilhorn [Member]

your right we better watch out for the French, they might try to take over Europe again and make everyone else smelly too!

08/25/07 @ 12:37

Comment from: reason [Member]

we need to sell to offset our oil imports.
bernada congressman tancredo is right we should wipe mecca and medina off the map if there is another attack.
pakistan has a right to self defense but i agree they should be bombed back to the stone age for supporting the taliban.

08/26/07 @ 21:33

Comment from: bernarda [Member]

"reason", why not nuke Jerusalem while you are at it?

Did you know that Tancredo dodged the draft by claiming mental illness and got a 1-Y deferment?

So you are in good company.

I expect nothing less from wingnuts.

08/27/07 @ 14:09

Comment from: SecularMan [Visitor]

Ellen Johnson has been catering to Israel and Zionists for years, with people like Dave "the Jew", her boyfriend Bart Meltzer demonizing any members who criticized the faith based racism, apartheid and/or ethnic cleansing campaign of Israel. Numerous state directors quit American Atheists because of AA sucking up to and defending Israel and Israel supporters. Ellen and others have been told the truth about Israel, but choose to cater to zionists who slander any human rights supporters as "Anti_semites", "Holocaust Deniers", etc.
Maybe Ellen, Bart and the rest of the board should sit down and watch "Occupation 101" and goto: www.IfAmericansKnew.org
Please condemn islamic extremism, but don't be such hypocrites as to cater to Jewish extremists and a faith based Jewish state.

08/27/07 @ 17:09

Comment from: reason [Member]

bernada
i never said tancredo was sane.as for bombing jerusalem we can leave that to the persians.
btw thats not suprising tancredo dodged the draft look at what we have serving in gov't it seems typical of that class.

08/27/07 @ 20:47

Comment from: bernarda [Member]

SecularMan, I don't know about the others you mention and their supposed ties to zionism, but I find your criticism of Dave to be very unfair.

As far as I can see, this blog is very open to criticism of Israel and zionism by posters, including myself. I have often posted links similar to the ones you put up.

I also don't think you help your cause by using such inflammatory rhetoric. Calm analysis works better.

Obviously I think that this letter is biased and one-sided and undignified of a group like AA. I have given my reasons above. Also, it implicitly supports one fundamentalist state, Israel, while condemning another, Saudi Arabia. "Johnson added that the U.S. needs to pay less attention to preparing the Arab countries for war". Israel is a theocratic state in fact if not in name and it is the U.S. that has prepared it for war.

"Dave Silverman, Communications Director for American Atheists, said that western aid is fueling the growth of religious chauvinism throughout the area."

Once again, in context this is directed at muslim religious chauvinism and not jewish religious chauvinism. The letter does mention "and provide more aid to Israel" but only in passing and that is obviously not the main point of the letter.

It is not in the interest of the U.S. to provide any aid to Israel, especially military. Israel already has the most powerful military in the region and there is no reason to continue to subsidize it.

I would have liked to see that in the letter.

08/28/07 @ 04:24

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