NoGodBlog.com

Athiests love America. We even love that little part of the Constitution that was designed to keep government from interfering with religion and religion from interfering with government.

Where are these billboards?

I love this country. I love the constituiton it was founded upon. I love how during a closely contested presidental race occurs, people joke about 'hanging chads' instead of a civil war breaking out. I am an atheist, I am a military vet, and I am disgusted by the assumption that religious belief constitutions love of one's country.

I went to www.ingodwetrust.org and left a comment on their feedback page about the billboard.

Are you christians obsessed with death because you love zombies or, are you obsessed with zombies because you love death?

The "Atheists Hate America" billboard is slanderous and repulsive...but

Not long ago I saw a campaign "imagine a world without religion", coupled with a picture of the NYC skyline, prominently featuring the WTC. The message was awfully close to saying religion = terrorism. Not much different in my mind to saying atheism = hate America.

If we expect religious people to denounce gross generalizations about atheists, shouldn't we do the same for gross generalizations about religious folks?

All the dimwitted saps who go to these churches and listen to these "leaders" and give money to these "charities" are complicit, and I abhor them as a result.

Of course there are exceptions. But those exceptions don't go on CNN or put up billboards. Clearly they are not a significant bunch.

The message was awfully close to saying religion = terrorism. Not much different in my mind to saying atheism = hate America.

The difference here is that religion was the prime motivating factor behind Sep. 11. Terrorists line up behind causes that are political, religious, or both.

If the world were without religion. You can use a "baby with the bath water" argument, but you cannot directly deny that religion was directly responsible for the attacks on the WTC.

I meant to say: If the world were without religion this wouldn't have happened.

Rusty the billboard action is in Chambersburg, PA.

The Public Opinion is a local newspaper and has a story on it here.

http://www.publicopiniononline.com/localnews/ci_8213501

An interesting addendum from that article:

The "Imagine No Religion" sign was replaced this week by a new sign with the words: "In God We Trust: Kegerreis Outdoor Advertising LLC." Underneath are the words: "The previous sign posted at this location does not reflect the values or morals of our company. Thank you."

It's not clear if the FFRF sign was up for the contracted time or taken down early by the sign company. They claim to have been deceived into believing it was a local church sponsoring the ad.

There are a great many comments on the Public Opinion page as well. Both sides are making themselves heard. At least for those I read, they seemed fairly evenly matched in numbers.

I'm finding lots of interesting links as I go along. Here is a subsequent and quite favourable editorial from the Public Opinion:

http://www.publicopiniononline.com//ci_8220539

Here an interview giving the FFRF side of things:

http://www.publicopiniononline.com/localnews/ci_8245237

Finally, and quite curiously the newspaper posts about far-flung reactions received online. At first I thought the title meant they found the range of opinions to be noteworthy. Turns out it was the geographical spread they meant. Every one of the comments they highlight is from an atheist:

http://www.publicopiniononline.com/opinion/ci_8256570

The problem is that religious folks can't imagine things. Imagination is their sworn enemies. The tower of babel is a story about how "the imaginations of mankind is evil because it enables us to do anything we put our minds to".

Off topic but interesting TIME article about African colonialism:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0%2C8599%2C1713275%2C00.html

It's not science they hate, it's imagination. If you can imagine something, then there is a way to make it true by pursuing that thought. When pursuing any thoughts that aren't "god is good" you are worshiping something else and you have somehow sinned.

I'm sorry, but the NY skyline with the twin towers still standing, and "Imagine the world with no religion" is a VERY GOOD picture. Religion *DOES* motivate and maintain the fire of terrorism. So yes, it *IS* accurate. If those people hadn't believed in stupid gods, it would have just been a very lame career move.

Give me a break.

Meh...
At least they are only fighting billboards with billboards. If they disagree, that is the appropriate thing to do, IMHO. Even if I do find it offensive.

I went to the site and posted feedback also, and I have serious trouble with the fact that anyone even in their wrong mind could believe that garbage. According to the website, In God We Trust was put on the national currency in the mid 1800s, evolutionist thinking is what caused the Holocaust, and evolution must be wrong because the bible doesn't say it, and the bible is infallible. AHHHHHH!

We should just respond with.
Why do Christians hate the US?

maybe....

Why do some Americans hate the atheists?

mdetrano,

If we expect religious people to denounce gross generalizations

Lets see; In dogs We Trust, One Nation Under dogs, "all atheists are going to hell" (as if), "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots" (quoted from the boy that raised the baby that never grew up) and many others, are what?

It is difficult to understand when you take one piece and then proceed to describe the puzzle.

Incidentally, many of us did try to avoid confronting the christian war machine but, well, you tell me what happened next?

Why do some Americans hate the atheists?

I don't feel very hated, just unsupported in my beliefs, and people don't listen to logic around here unless they are another atheist. Everyone wannts us to have faith in something that can't be tested. Every time I say some experiment to disprove god's existance, I get "oh, god said not to test him" or "if god proved he existed to you, then that wouldn't be the same as you having faith"

I just like believing things that can be tried and tested, not things that require faith to believe like biblical mythology.

You gotta love those Australians:

http://www.break.com/index/door_to_door_atheists_bother_mormons.html

God's like that monster in the closet; when you tell a kid there is nothing in there and you show it to him, the kid still doesn't believe you because there was a thump when the AC unit kicked on. To disbelieve the monster is to disbelieve the kid who said there was a monster, and hence ego kicks in and the kid gets mad. Kid says, "Oh yeah there is a monster! It just dissapears whenever you turn the light on." OH SURE!

Alexatheist:
What a great link!!!
Is so funny to see how the mormons react to the same actions and how they (the mormons) reject a reasonable invitation!.
Thank you.

The first billboard is asking people to consider another option, the option of not being religious. It doesn't attack anyone, unless you believe that everyone should be forced to follow your religion.

The second billboard is an attack on atheists. Why is it acceptable to attack atheists, but not acceptable to attack a religion, and ethnic group, even a sexual preference? What's the difference? Imagine a billboard that said jews hate America, that would be taken down. This billboard is a hate crime.

We should purchase more advertising to remind America that evangelical America is our war criminal presidents chief support group.

Suck it Jesus!

pha

We should ask the same company displaying the atheists-hate-america crap to display the following:

Why do Methodsist hate American.

Paid for by the Southern Baptist Convention

What's good for the goose ...

Should be: Why do Methodists hate America?

Or why do white southerners hate blacks?

Actually, there is a good side to this. It gives atheists a public exposure and leads to debate and discussion. Probably a lot of the bible belt community doesn't really believe that atheists really exist, and those on the fence might think they are just exotic rare species.

As Oscar Wilde said, the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

Anyhow, the most anti-American are the jesus freaks. They put their allegiance to their gawd, jeebus, and religion above that to America.

There is that infamous propaganda film about xian evangelists in the Pentagon where the military and civil employees openly talk about their primary devotion to gawd. America comes in third or fourth.

Here is my response to them

To: 'hfutch@inGodwetrust.com'
I am one that loves this country, far more than most people. Your billboard offends millions of patriotic Atheists just like me. Most of our founding fathers were NOT Christian but deists. Our Founding Fathers unanimously agreed that “the United States of America is not a Christian Nation”. If anything is true, groups like yours hate America and all it stands for.

Your billboard is reflective of your arrogance, ignorance and intolerance of others.

What’s next?
Why do Jews hate America?

Could this be a hate crime?

I see Pha Beat me to this but none the less is it?

At the very least, it is slander. Also bearing false witness.

It truly sickens me -- not that some asses would hate us just for our beliefs

Wow...talk about projecting.

Dave you should step out of your little box and take a look at the vitriol and hatred expressed on this board towards believers...

But then again...what this thread is really about is claiming a crisis so that AA appears to be the "White Knight"...

This is why we fight, and this is why we shout.

And as far as a nation WITHOUT religion...hmmmm...it doesn't work...

Well, I hate America, especially what it's become in the 21st century, but that has nothing to do with my being an atheist.

And I don't cry and scream because religionists pick on my with their stupid billboards. I make a stink because they fly planes into buildings and rape children and waste taxpayer money on prostelyzation under the guise of charity and brainwash people so they can't even think any more and put the public health at risk by not getting their children vaccinated and and.... and then even those religionists who are not so insane say we can't critizie the freaks because God told them to do all of these things.

phreedm,

Dave you should step out of your little box and take a look at the vitriol and hatred expressed on this board towards believers...

We don't hate the believer. We hate the belief.

Sound familiar, you hypocritical baboon's ass?

phreedm,

One more thing.

And as far as a nation WITHOUT religion...hmmmm...it doesn't work...

Oh yeah, I forgot. China is a failed state. That is why we owe them billions of dollars from our robust economy.

Get a grip before you fall off the edge of the earth.

And as far as a nation WITHOUT religion...hmmmm...it doesn't work...

It's obvious you have never been to Sweden. or Australia. or Canada. or Japan. or any other majority agnostic/atheist developed nation. America stands alone in it's religiosity among First World nations.

There are some of these in Franklin County PA...it even made the front page of the newspaper this week...guess what the prominent feature of the article was??? "Why do atheists hate America"...yea, but "imagine no religion"...that was just in the text, but atheists hate America...that's a big ol picture

NY Times Article: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?

http://tinyurl.com/29nhx8

I like this person's idea because it's sportier and less gloomy than looking out and seeing crosses, and maybe it will encourage the novices to stay off the road :)

Black Diamond System

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Black_20Diamond_20System

The response to the billboard was fairly typical. Christians have a great deal of difficulty tolerating atheists. They are generally much more tolerant of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc.

Atheists are the last group in America that it is socially acceptable to publicly hate. As someone noted above, can you imagine if the billboard said "Why do Methodists Hate America?" There'd be outrage. Hell, there'd be outrage if it said "Why do Muslims Hate America?" But atheists? Fair game.

For "The Second Coming of Jesus Christ" - to Judge the World. - I will wait expectantly.

O Lord, hear me as I pray; pay attention to my groaning.… Listen to my voice in the morning, Lord. Each morning I bring my requests to you and wait expectantly.
Psalm 5:1-3 NLT

Abraham Lincoln once said, "I would be the greatest fool on earth if I did not realize that I could never satisfy the demands of the high office without the help of One who is greater and stronger than I am."

David realized this truth too. Although he was a powerful king, he daily acknowledged his dependence on someone far greater and stronger than he was. Not only did David begin each day depending on the Lord, but he waited expectantly throughout the day to see how God would work on his behalf. When you live each day looking upward, God often sends delightful surprises.

When we don't pray, we quit the fight.
Prayer keeps the Christian's armor bright.
And Satan trembles when he sees
The weakest saint upon his knees.
WILLIAM COWPER
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory.
GEORGE PATTON JR

While you're still alive.......there's still a chance..."For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have an everlasting life" John 3:16

God is in the way

Get back on your meds before you hurt someone.

God is in the way

What is your operational definition of gawd?
What is your operational definition of Satan?

One would think this would be important to you. If you don't have an operational definition (look it up if you do not understand the term) then how would you tell the two apart?

Yeah, my husband (who is also an atheist) hates America so much that he has served honorable in the US Air Force for the past 20 years.

God is in the way

One more thing. Read what you wrote. You are really really into violence man. Back on those meds pronto.

Christ is the way

Take your Bible, your groaning and your bad poetry, and peddle it all somewhere else. That Cowper poem was really pathetic tripe! We can quote the Bible right back at you, bub, we know it as well as you do. Only we understand that it's mythology.

So really, take what's advice, get back on your meds and try to kick the violence-worshiping tendencies. You're a bomb waiting to go off. Do it elsewhere.

Hey Dave
Someone in the comments at the newspaper piece about the billboard mentioned bringing a class-action suit on behalf of FFRF and atheists against the people behind www.InGodWeTrustUSA.org. Sounds like a good idea to me, since this billboard is not only libelous, but commits defamation of character. And may be a hate crime as well. Others have noted that if the word atheists was replaced with Jews or blacks or any other minority, it would be seen as outright bigotry. So maybe you should be contacting the lawyers? Or FFRF should be, and you should be contacting FFRF and offering help? And there might possibly be some petition formed that we could sign, affirming that we, as atheist patriots are offended by the ignorance and bigotry displayed by this billboard?

For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning. Psalm 30:5

If I understand correctly, the first sign is simply saying imagine a world with no religion and the second is a heavy handed loaded question. It seems an uneven response. I personally think both groups should be allowed to buy the advertising and put up what they want, but it seems the second sign is an overreaction.

There are a good number of religious people who believe this country should allow people the choice of believing or not and making sure that government does not corrupt religion and vice versa. There seems to be a trend for the same people that want to use the government to enforce religion are the same group of people who believe in free market ideas and think that government is inept and wasteful. I don't understand why a group who thinks government is inept would want that same government to enforce ideas as personal as belief. It doesn't make sense to me.

I am hopeful in looking at the results of the primaries that it appears Americans have had enough of the radicals who have been in charge for the last 7 years. While McCain has some ideas that I deeply disagree with, he does not appear to be supported or liked by the radical right. Signs like why do atheists hate america only show their own ignorance and I think people have had enough of it. It's my hope at least.

I took Karen's idea and emailed the In God We Trust xians, objecting to their tactics.

info@InGodWeTrustUSA.org

Their billboard asks: Why do atheists hate America? My question was: WHY DO CHRISTIANS LIE?

I also asked exactly how they know atheists hate America and asked if I might have the names of these atheists they interviewed who have proclaimed their hate for this country. However, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that information to arrive.

Shit like this spurs me to join the army.

Horus,

Join now, and you can get $40,000 cash for a down payment on a house, in exchange for a 5 year commitment.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/02/ap_armydownpayment_080213/

P.S. Don't forget to duck!

Christ is in the way.

Yeah, he's in the way for some people, but I can tell that he has practically double parked you so bad that you can't even pull out of the church parking lot. Do you ever think about anything else besides petter-ass religion, or are you hooked on your emotional abuse cycle!? I'm thinking that you are trying to get out from under that dark cloud of belief but you can't do it on your own. You've come to the right place if that is your motive.

Um, read this, and then I'll give you till next year to say to yourself "religion is dumb, and I've wasted my time!"

http://the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/?gclid=CIXS9OaHu5ECFRYXiQodilAsng

When we don't pray, we quit the fight. Prayer keeps the Christian's armor bright. And Satan trembles when he sees. The weakest saint upon his knees.

Or maybe he gags at the sight of that god petter-ass making you suck his d!&%.

Crist in the way,
Check this one out, seems like the greeks bit you by a long shot and, yes, their god is bigger than yours:

Hymn to Dionysus
The God of All Things Wild


Dionysus! Wanderer of field and forest
Long grasses and wiry shrubs
As the sacred wine is within the jeweled cup
So are you within all things wild
You are the whirlwind of mighty change upon the abstracted
Tearer-down of great cities, burning temples and sculptures
That mankind may see what is living
Typhoon! Famine! Violent death!
Such is the revenge of Dionysus
Upon those who forget their true heritage
And take upon themselves the lives of others
Beware, liars, slanderers, gossips, cheats
The over-civilized and the under-sensitive
Philosophers, logicians, money-lenders, and those that feel in words
For your script will be burnt and your logic destroyed
And your gaping emptiness will be filled by the powers
Of savage and inborn truth.
Dionysus is the reality of Nature
Hidden deep within the body
Blood-lust, desire, and naked fear
Love and hatred based on instinct
Drunkenness barring true direction
Violence showing man's true home
Dizziness causing veering footsteps
To find the true path once again.
Within the grasp of his powerful hands
Is the secret of change and sudden awareness
He looses chains and breaks down walls
He opens the vast unknown potential
Of the human soul.
His are the worshipers of wild, free Nature
Whose roots have been blasted asunder
The powerfully loving ones
The ones of keen perception
They follow the dance of Dionysus
They follow the call of their own hearts
Flowing like a river through the winding pathways
Singing again the ancient songs
Of dying trees and withered stems
Of new beginnings and lightning crashing.
Such are the lovers of Dionysus!
Let me be one!

Hello Ren...I'd ask how you're doing, but after reading your posts there's no need to...

Tell me something...what do you believe in...?

Comment from: GodFree&Glad

I also asked exactly how they know atheists hate America and asked if I might have the names of these atheists they interviewed who have proclaimed their hate for this country.

Wow...talk about being blind...

Comment from: writerdd

Well, I hate America, especially what it's become in the 21st century, but that has nothing to do with my being an atheist.

phreedm,

Hello to you, as well.

I believe in all things that are backed up by evidence. No evidence... no belief.

I believe all things are part of the natural world. As such, there is no room for the unsubstantiated; the supernatural.

Ren,

How do you explain supernatural events?

phreedm,

What do YOU believe?

Your own holy book places the earth at, not only the center of the solar system, but at the center of the universe.

Is that what YOU believe? Do you believe that the sun revolves around the Earth? If so, you are an idiot. If not, then you don't even believe your own BS, and that makes you a liar.

So which is it? Idiot, or liar?

BTW, I promptly answer all the questions you direct at me. I do not believe you have EVER answered a question I have asked you. Hence the vitriol! Want to be treated nicer? Try playing fair. Either that, or you can take your toys and go home.

phreedm,

How do you explain supernatural events?

I have never observed a supernatural event, so I don't know what you are talking about. Got any examples?

Ghosts? Gobblins? UFOs? Invisible pink unicorns?

Sure...how about "life" from "non-life"...?

An egg is not alive. A sperm is not alive. Together, they create life. Completly natural. No god needed.

As to where life came from initially... well, I would have to say that the jury is still out, and when I see verifiable, repeatable, testable data that explains from whence it came, then I will get back to you. In the mean time, "God did it" just doesn't fly. There is substantial evidence for abiogenesis. Zero evidence for god(s). Therefore I remain open-minded.

If I saw irrefutable evidence for the existance of God, I would be the first one to the church/temple/mosque on the sabbath. Can you honestly say that if you saw irrefutable evidence that there is NO God, you would give up the fantasy world you live in?

Ren,

Wait...no mention of God from me.

Is there any doubt in your mind that "life" came from "non-life"?
I'm assuming there isn't...

So...

Comment from: Ren

I believe in all things that are backed up by evidence. No evidence... no belief.

No evidence...and yet you believe?

Or am I wrong...?

phreedm,

Or am I wrong...?

You tell me.

As to where life came from initially... well, I would have to say that the jury is still out, and when I see verifiable, repeatable, testable data that explains from whence it came, then I will get back to you.

phreedm,

Now how about answering my question from earlier. Do you believe the earth is the center of the universe, or do you believe that the bible is wrong in this regard? (And) if it is wrong in this regard, what makes you think it is correct about anything else?

Actually, the Bible does not state that the earth is the center of the universe.

Ah...no sense in studying that which we don't understand...

And no...I'm not wrong. Fascinating that you can not admit faith without proof...

Actually, the Bible does not state that the earth is the center of the universe.

Then please explain the catholic church's persecution of Copernicus for his heliocentric theory.

Copernicus was right and the Pope was wrong. Yet, the Pope is infallible. Please explain the discrepency. You can't. The fact is, they make shit up as they go along, and you two eat it up hook, line, and sinker.

Ren...we're not talking about the catholic church...

We're talking about you and me...and faith without evidence...

Fascinating that you can not admit faith without proof...

If faith is believing in things for which there is no proof (and it is) than I have ZERO faith.

Ren...we're not talking about the catholic church...

I'm sorry. Does the Catholic Church use some other text, besides the bible? Besides, I was responding to Jordan.

As long as we are on the subject... what is up with all the pictures of Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes? When was the last time you saw a Jew with blonde hair and blue eyes. (And) as far as that goes, if you want to be more Christ-like, why aren't you a Jew? Jesus was a Jew. If you aspire to be more like him, why aren't you Jewish???

"Saturday night's alright for fightin'."

Elton John

Go Ren! I notice he's weaseling out of answering your questions. Predictable. Don't let up on him; hold those feet to the fire.

Karen,

Hi Sweetheart! Feel free to throw a log on the pyre at anytime. Jordan had no problems inserting him/herself into our discussion. I see no reason why folks with better debating skills and a cooler head than mine can't do the same on our side.

No Karen...try getting a grip. It's a common practice to change the landscape in a discussion...

And Ren...you do have faith. Why is it so hard to admit it?

We all have faith...

Just as at some point...we're ALL creationists...

Why is it so difficult for a non-believer to admit that they have faith?

phreedum,
There is no "supernatural" but only those natural events for which we do not yet have a full understanding. An example of this would be neolithic man believing that lightning or a solar eclipse was magic when in fact we now understand that these events are not.

As far as origins of life goes, science does not yet have an answer to this question but this does not mean that science won't eventually have one. It is a common misunderstanding among the willfully pig ignorant that evolution answers the origins of life when in fact it does not.

Ren

Sorry. As a new year's resolution I swore off talking to phreedm because of his endless derails and his pointless abuse of the ellipse. not to mention his refusal to ask direct questions or answer those put to him without changing the subject. Jordan mostly likes to throw scripture around, so is not real interesting. But I'll gladly root you on in a phreedm take-down. Proceed, my friend. Glad to see you at the ready!

phreedm,

And Ren...you do have faith. Why is it so hard to admit it?

Do tell! Just what exactly do I have faith in, oh wise sage? And when and where did you get the power to read minds?

Perhaps you mean I have faith the sun will come up tomorrow? Sorry, but there is insurmountable evidence that, that will happen. Or maybe you believe I have faith in my fellow man (whatever that means) but you would be wrong. I believe mankind is a virus. (Figurativly speaking, of course)

Faith requires belief in the absence of evidence. I have no faith!!! I have hope. I have dreams. I have desires. But again, I have no faith.

Ren...so then, you have no faith? At all...???

Alex...confusing the issues also? Pig ignorant? Expressing some of that superior intelligence I see....

Who even mentioned evolution...

Here...point blank. Alex and Ren...do you believe "life" came from "non-life"?

It only requires a simple "yes" or "no"...

Karen,

Understood. I should probably take your advice and do the same, but what else do I have to do at the moment, beyond beating my head against a brick wall?

I'm full of piss and vinegar at the moment, so I thought I would get it out of my system.

Thank you for your moral support. It means the world to me.

Alex,

Well stated. I couldn't have said it better myself. No, really. I think I have proven that time and again. It is always better to let cooler heads prevail.

On a differnt note...tell me this doesn't sound like many who post on this blog...

The Fascists were completely against individualism in general and especially against individualism in a free market economy. Their agenda included minimum wage laws, government restrictions on profit-making, progressive taxation of capital, and "rigidly secular" schools.

townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/02/14/who_is_fascist

phreedm,

Here...point blank. Alex and Ren...do you believe "life" came from "non-life"?

Personally, I do not know from where life came originally, but then I don't claim to. You, on the other hand, believe that man came from a lump of clay, and women from his rib. Just who is it that believes life came from no life?

phreedm,

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Let's see, patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism, sounds an awful lot like YOU phreedm, not us.

Ah...no sense in studying that which we don't understand

Alex...confusing the issues also? Pig ignorant? Expressing some of that superior intelligence I see....

I'll put my IQ score and education up against your's any day phreedum.

Here...point blank. Alex and Ren...do you believe "life" came from "non-life"?
It only requires a simple "yes" or "no"...

Actually it is a much more complex question that requires more than a simple "yes" or "no" answer but, in predictable xian simplistic thinking, a question of this magnitude must be reduced to a simple black and white binary issue in order to make it comprehensible. I accept the fact that complex organic biochemistry has been detected outside of the Earth and that life probably originated from these essential building blocks through some sort of biochemical process. Having said that, science does not yet have a comprehensive answer to explain the process from which non living organic chemistry became living. As more evidence is gathered this question will likely be answered but for right now it is perfectly acceptable for science to say "We don't know".

Just who is it that believes life came from no life?

Truth is...we all do...

You, on the other hand, believe that man came from a lump of clay, and women from his rib.

Yeah...far fetched...eh?

I guess you have no faith in cloning...

Having "no faith" kind of gets in the way of life...

your's = yours :-)

Having "no faith" kind of gets in the way of life...

Having faith kind of gets in the way of intelligence.

I guess you have no faith in cloning...

Are you joking? Cloning WORKS. It is done on a routine basis in labs around the world with multiple species. How can you honestly compare faith in a god creating life from non life to medical science creating animal clones in a lab? We have all seen Dolly the sheep on TV but only crazy people claim to have seen god.

Pig ignorant was perhaps too kind a word to describe you, phreedum. I apologise to pigs everywhere.

ren

Nice catch on the fascism thing. I was about to comment on phreedm derailing his own conversation when I saw your response to his little sidebar. Nail/head.

I guess you have no faith in cloning...

Why would I need faith in a scientific fact? Cloning has been done repeatedly in the lab, and every time someone has twins, cloning is done in nature. Can I ask; where does faith come into the picture?

Comment from: Ren

Having faith kind of gets in the way of intelligence.

Actually...faith is an integral part of intelligence...

WOOT to Alex and Ren on the cloning!
I feel like a cheerleader shaking her pompoms! OK, I'll just let youse guys have at 'im now, yer doin' swell!

Is it just me, or does anyone else think of David Koresch whenever they see the phrase, "Click here for Lamb Of God Ring-tones?"

Perhaps when your phone rings, it sounds like 83 people dying in a fire.

phreedm,

Actually...faith is an integral part of intelligence...

I'm on pins and needles. Do tell! BTW, if that is a slight at me... you can do so much better than that. I have faith in you :-0

Ren
I googled Lamb of God ringt0nes to see if they offered samples of the sounds, but you had to select a carrier. Guess what one was? DOBSON Cellular! Ya s'pose Ole Focus on the Family James is making a mint in communications?

Oops, I failed to do my research before I posted. I guess when your phone rings, it sounds like eighty-TWO people dying in a fire.

They are best known for the 1993 siege of their Center near Waco, Texas, by the ATF and the FBI, which resulted in the deaths of eighty-two of the church's members, including head figure David Koresh.

Karen,

Dobson... making money off of religion... pshaw!

Preeky never tires of asking that question over and over again "Why isn't my fantastical imagination as good as science?".

Belief is never necessary.

The believer is never the beneficiary of belief.

Belief is the unseen door through which corruption enters man's interactions.

Faith is the hope you are not being suckered by your beliefs.

Sure...how about "life" from "non-life"...?

It seems that they're making progress in that direction:

http://www.physorg.com/news120405972.html

Well, phreedy, Life from no-life?

Was there life before the big bang, or shortly after? If some Idiot Designer made life, when did it do it? Which Designer do you mean: the ones from Norse or Greek or Egyptian beliefs?

Then there are also the Indian, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Designers. Let's just roll the dice and pick anyone of them. We have so many Designers to choose from.

- In my earlier post, I mentioned a video that was illegally made by a group called Christian Embassy.

Here is a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4FE-73B56k

A CNN report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1F-vWVhBOw

Here is a short history of Amerika as a "Christian Nation".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njkeBvipOLg

Comment from: alexatheist

Are you joking? Cloning WORKS. It is done on a routine basis in labs around the world with multiple species. How can you honestly compare faith in a god creating life from non life to medical science creating animal clones in a lab?

Ah Alex...good question. Typical from one who places man's ability over that of God's...

I'd give you the answer but since you have superior intelligence I'm sure you can connect the dots...

But just as you said you have faith in science and that one day science will reveal the answers...so right now it's ok to say...

We don't know...

Likewise God has revealed many Truths that took man thousands of years to discover...so, one day He will reveal all...so right now it's ok for us to say...

We don't know...

You tell my why your belief system is any more valid....????

phreedm

Are you saying man is god if we can make a woman from a mans rib?

we need a live chat page

or chat room whatever you want to call it

people we need to rise above this name calling it helps no one all it does is make a fight. WE do not need to we are better then that.

Rons05Stang....monotheism only deserves ridicule when it is in the public forum....

phreedm,

Likewise God has revealed many Truths that took man thousands of years to discover...so, one day He will reveal all...so right now it's ok for us to say...

What has God ever revealed to YOU? I didn't know YOU were a prophet. How often does God actually speak to you where you can hear him, just as you would hear your wife call you for dinner?

If you have never heard him speak to you out loud... then you are just listening to the voices in your head. As far as revelations made to others; without being there to witness the revelation yourself, it is not a revelation at all. It is HERESAY! Nothing more.

Phreeky Phreddy's questions remind me of one of my favorite movies--Dumb nad Dumber

Oops, that's Dumb and Dumber. No "nads" involved :)

Why would we have to discover truths if god already revealed them to us? He revealed them and then we forgot them and then discovered them and found out they were the same as the ones that were revealed?

"Atheists are the last group in America that it is socially acceptable to publicly hate."

Not that it's a competition or anything, but fat people also hold this distinction in society. Perhaps even more-so as society actively encouranges the hatred of fat and fat people. The elderly can be put on that list as well, especially elderly women. I've heard phrases like this too many times---"everyone and their GrandMother" "even my GRANDMOHTER can do it", which designates the elderly women to the status of lowest of the low, most feable, usless... I mean after all , even they can apparently do whatever it is. So while atheists certainly belong to that sad societal hate list, it's certianly not the last group. Although as I said, it's not a competition in what segment of society is more discriminated against.

Santa Clause and buddha are jolly fat guys.

Fat=Jolly

You tell my why your belief system is any more valid....????

Because my "beliefs" (actually acceptance of facts) are backed up by testable and repeatable peer reviewed evidence and your belief system is propped up only by personal faith. Your belief in god is no more substantial than a belief in leprechauns is and there really is absolutely no comparison to be made between what we believe, phreedum.

Phreedm ducks. He weaves. He takes one hit after another. He's on the ropes. A right cross and he's down.

As the count reaches 10 we hear him say, "Jesus! Wasn't my faith good enough?".

That's what happens when you float like a bee and sting like a butterfly.

phreedy is a cut and runner, a coward. It's been a long time since he has responded to my criticisms of his total BS.

As I have said before, he simply seems to be an agent provocateur.

These bilboards were in my town in Pennsylvania a matter of weeks ago.
First, it was the Imagine No Religion,
Then, in less than 2 weeks, it was replaced, directly over top, with Atheists Hate American.

All that exists at this moment has a creator - all that existed at previous moments. For some bizarre reason Phreeky wants to attach a personality and a penis to that existed at each previous moment. Now that's just weird.

that existed -> what existed