NoGodBlog.com

Aren't you technically a hebrewic atheist or a semitic atheist instead then?

Dave

I posted a picture of the Pope (comparing him to Palpatine) to point out that I can insult Christians all day long and not get death threats. It was intended again to show the barbaric attitude of Moslems compared to Christians.

I think you are a wonderful human being doing fantastic work on behalf of American Atheists. I also think that you should examine your prejudices more soberly. As should we all.

The fact is that you chose not to insult jews. And I, for one, asked why. Your response appears to be that you did not have a suitable insulting image targeting jews. Well then, I think you should get one. This perceived lack of evenhandedness has arisen on this blog in the past.

Buddhists and Hindus are not significant players with respect to the violence that you are implicit addressing - violence emanating from middle east conflicts. So please don't muddy the waters.

I am not particularly critical of jews myself. And have only really focused on muslims since 9/11. The religionists who have consistently been a sticking point for their interference in gov't and the public square have been christians, and it is they who draw most of my ire. And, to be honest, some of it has to do with being brought up in christianity.

Dave
I didn't get your point about being able to insult christians all day w/o getting death threats from the original post. I'm afraid it went over my head. I just thought you were mocking christians along with muslims, and thought the Palpatine pic was extraneous to the theme. Since your point was about the insecurity and needless posturing by Islamics compared to other religions, perhaps it would have been made stronger had you included judaism along with christianity.

They all have their wars, but they are not a problem HERE (Hint: AMERICAN Atheists)

Ah, but our government supports Israel's war, so that is our problem. And many christians support Israel; I believe we've ranted about that. I don't take sides in the Israel/Palestine issue; I really don't know who's right there. But how much of our support of Israel is religiously based-that's my concern.

I am not one who has criticized you , nor am I now. I will say though, that I can see how it can be seen that there is a pro-jewish bias here. I happen to agree that the jews are, in general, far more reasonable than the others. As Barney Franks said on Bill Maher's show, "There are some crazy rabbis-they're just all in the ME." (paraphrase) Maybe you can find one now and then to throw to the lions?

What -- The post was supposed to be about ISLAM being barbaric. The Pope picture was posted to show how barbaric ISLAM is -- and that even the Catholics don't make death threats when you attack them.

Had I posted a picture of, say Meir Kahane, and said the same thing (Look! I can attack Jews and not get death threats), some posters would have accused me of being pro-Jewish, and missed the point even more.

BUT no, I don't have any anti-Jewish pictures, except for Lieberman, which is way off-point. If you have any, send me some via email and I'll use them when appropriate.

Make no mistake -- Buddhists and Hindus do bad things for their religions as well -- but like the Jews, they don't do much of it HERE, and I have made the decision not to digress beyond our shores when possible.

Please tell me: have the Jews done something against America or against Atheists that I've not addressed? Should I make an exception to the "America only" rule JUST so we can talk about Israel? Should I have a "Jew Quota", and criticize them every so often, even when it's not deserved?

ON the right-side of this blog is a search bar. Put in the word JEWS and see what you get. I think I've been very fair -- there's just not much to complain about RE: Jews.

Quantum -- semitic is too broad, and Hebrew is a language. Jewish Atheist is the most commonly-used term for people like me.

FYI, I only use the term when pushed. I normally just use Atheist.

Karen,

Looking back at the post, I can see where I could have pushed my point harder and where you could have missed it. Perhaps this is the problem here.

But the Israeli funding issue is not religious IMO, it's political. We don't give them money to promote Judaism, to promote religion, or to help the messiah come. We give them money because they are a friendly democratic state in the middle of unstable land, and we need a friend there. Yes, they have a state religion (Jewish) , but so do many countries (Italy, England, Germany, etc).

Israel's war is religious-in-part, but the US money going there is in exchange for political power, which we surely used in the Gulf Wars.

I don't care what country we fund or what religion they support officially. If we dropped Israel and funded, say, Jordan, I'd have no problem with it. The question to me is whether the USA is getting its money's worth, and that is simply off topic for this blog.

Capice?

Dave

Ich sehe das. :-)

Something that is completely necessary in this world! Invented by an "xian atheist" :)

http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Space_20Suit_20Bathtub#1206389001

Dave

The post was supposed to be about ISLAM being barbaric. The Pope picture was posted to show how barbaric ISLAM is -- and that even the Catholics don't make death threats when you attack them.

But YOU left out jews. Some of us have asked why? So far you have not addressed this except to say you don't have a suitable image and ask OTHERS to provide such images.

Had I posted a picture of, say Meir Kahane, and said the same thing (Look! I can attack Jews and not get death threats), some posters would have accused me of being pro-Jewish, and missed the point even more.

Huh? Did anybody here accuse you of being pro-catholic because you posted an image objectionable to most catholics.

Please tell me: have the Jews done something against America or against Atheists that I've not addressed?

Is it just a coincidence to you that Perle, Wolfowitz and Abrams are all jews as well as the principal propagandists in the build up to the Invasion of Iraq and its ghastly consequences.

Should I make an exception to the "America only" rule JUST so we can talk about Israel?

I simply do not understand this question. Maybe you could explain.

Should I have a "Jew Quota", and criticize them every so often, even when it's not deserved?

A terribly leading question don't you think?


The solution is simple. When criticizing crazy religious loons involved in a major conflict then criticize all of them.

AND ANOTHER THING!

I've got a poster on my wall from the AAI Convention last year. Those of you who were there can dig it out. It has caricatures of "good guys" (Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, Hitchens, among others) and "bad guys".

The bad guys are Muhammad (w/bomb), a Muslim woman, the Pope (w/boy scout puppet), Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard, and Bill Oreilly.

They insult Moslems and Christians but not Jews! Maybe AAI is pro-Jewish as well?

The article Dave posted and commented on was about Osama bin Laden and Pope Benedict. Islam and Catholicism.

Dave's remarks were actually on topic (re the article) - that probably disoriented some of us.

They insult Moslems and Christians but not Jews! Maybe AAI is pro-Jewish as well?

Maybe.

jeff_r

The article in question contained none of Dave's value-added images or taunt.

Well, no, AAI is not pro-Jew. And neither am I.

But neither am I going to throw out an insult that isn't deserving. I'm just going to disagree with you here. If the Jews aren't hurting Americans or Atheists, then I should not criticize them. I'm not going to trash them just to be "even", or just because they actually believe their ancestors' mythologies.

Perhaps a side thread on the Israeli conflict would be suitable?

Perhaps I missed something here.

I have never had a Jew try to deny me my rights. I don't see Budhists threatening my rights either.

Same can not be said about xtians, or muslims.

Why should Dave have to insult Jews or Muslims?

I think Jews are just not as offensive as christians or muslims. For one thing, they don't seem to be telling other people how to live their lives constantly. If you want to talk about Israel, then there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

Incidentally, there are also plenty of christians and muslims that fit the description I just gave. I don't mind those kinds of religious people either, although I think they are nuts for believing in fairy tales. You can believe whatever you want as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights.

Talk is cheap Dave...actions are what speak volumes...AA is a bigoted organization with a very narrow agenda. The only fact that prevents AA from going after everything that's Christian is if it originates from the "Left" side of the aisle...

I can give several examples...

Why hasn't AA gone after the Jewish school in Florida?

Why hasn't AA gone after the Muslim school in New York City?

Why does AA give a pass to Hillary and her endorsement from the Abyssinian Baptist Church in New York City?

Why did AA go after Jacksonville, FL., and not after Blacksburg, VA?

Sure, you can post a few cartoons on a blog that Muslims mostly likely have no idea exists.

Let's see AA file a law suit that isn't Christian based...

I shamed Israel when they moved settlers into disputed areas (effectively creating human shields out of children, which really pisses me off

In much the same way, AA makes "educational shields" out of children from the inner cities when they deny a child's opportunity to leave a failing school all because they believe supporting the "myth" is more important then a child's mind...

Dave

But neither am I going to throw out an insult that isn't deserving.

I don't understand this. Early in the thread you wrote

It was intended again to show the barbaric attitude of Moslems compared to Christians.

So it would appear that you see the posting of such images as a backhanded complement. So why not "complement" the jews as well.

phreedm:
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

Where is AA intolerant? I will tell you. We are intolerant of anyone that FORCES their beliefs onto another.

We don't give a shit what others believe.

You know this and you are just plain full of intolerance of anyone that does not believe as you. In that, you phreedm, you are the bigot.

What:

So it would appear that you see the posting of such images as a backhanded complement. So why not "complement" the jews as well.

Jeez, what is up your ass, anyways? You want even-handedness? Let's go after the Wiccans, the Shintoists, [insert your choice here], etc.
I bash most everyone equally @ my blog, & I've blasted away @ everyone, from the Israelites to the Scientologists. Raelians, too.
There are limits.
I keep getting hints of 'the vast Jooo-ish conspiracy' out of your little creeping innuendos - it's ridiculous, really.
Jews tend to let people turn their backs on belief more often than most I've just cited here - w/a lot less grief (as I understand it, not being of that heritage).
So lay your cards on the table already.

Dave,
I saw your debate on Atheist Viewpoint, and you were 100% right. I hope the Atheists debating you were just playing Devil's Advocate. The notion that you can't simultaneously be a Jew (an ethnic/cultural category) and an atheist (religious/philosophical category) is cretinous.

There is something else you can be, or not be, simultaneously with being, or not being, a Jew. Do you need 3 guesses what that is? Hint: I'm amazed to have read 19 long posts here, every one saying "Jew" repeatedly, and the correct word not a single time.

I have to say I am in fundamental (pardon the expression) disagreement with your position on American Atheists' responsibilities vis-à-vis Israel. It involves basic principles that concern us deeply as American Atheists and as American citizens.

The Zionist movement in America is one of the most serious threats to democracy. They are as dishonest and irrational as the creationists, and as far as I can see, a lot more vicious. In addition to attacking freedom of speech, they are a prime example of governmental corruption by special-interest pressure groups.

As far as Israel itself is concerned, it couldn't even exist without US support. As American citizens we are responsible for what our government does to anyone anywhere in the world.

Your characterization of Israel as a "democracy" is absurd. Remember Mordechai Vanunu? Israel is a theocracy. Scientific archeology in Palestine is being sabotaged because the Israelis are afraid to lose the mythological rationale for their state's existence.

There is NO sane or humane excuse for US to support Israel. If you woke up to find a gang of armed men in your bedroom, saying "A hundred years ago this house belonged to our family. So it's still ours. You get out!" What would you think?

Support for Israel violates church/state separation, pure and simple.

Hello Fast,

A sane argument, but I think you're over-exhaggerating the Zionist conspiracy thing. George Bush (especially) trying to promote... Judaism... by throwing money at Israel... With the country in recession...to please the immense Jewish Lobby... I'm sorry, I just don't see it. The Zionist lobby has money -- but not that much. Can you support your claim that they are more dangerous than Christians?

I am still just the spokesperson, so if you want to challenge AA's official position I'm not the decision Maker -- talk to Ellen Johnson at ej@atheists.org.

And as for the Viewpoint episodes, thanks for your support. No, my opponent was not being argumentative to be a devil's advocate -- he was being really, really "cretinous" (I love that word -- I'm going to use it more often).

KA

Jeez, what is up your ass, anyways?

Does that pass as an argument amongst your peers?

You want even-handedness? Let's go after the Wiccans, the Shintoists, ...

Let's. And how are they related to the issue of violence in the ME? I'm all eyes.

Dave

A sane argument, but I think you're over-exhaggerating the Zionist conspiracy thing.

Perle, Wolfowitz and Abrams are all pro-israel jews? They were the principal players in the propaganda machine that sold America the Invasion of Iraq. Is that just a coincidence?

Oh and let's not forget Douglas Feith another pro-israel jew and member of Betar that helped sell us this human and foreign policy disaster.

It seems like there is also a definite christian connection to the large amount of support that the United States gives to Israel. I know the "official" United States position would sound very much strategy based but, there is so much christian support for Israel that I can't dismiss the religious connection there. I would be willing to try finding references for my position if it seems incorrect, maybe I am, it just doesn't seem that way to me.

Dave, that is the only part I disagree with. Continue pointing out the christian and muslim conceptual and logical errors as often as possible. No need to critique all religions equally, as long as the christians get a good dose of; right back at ya jesus freaks :)

This is just nuts.
Of course Israel's taking advantage of the religious fervor that helps support them. "Oh, gee whiz, we're surrounded & outnumbered by millions of Arabs who all want us fucking dead, but we should turn down any offer of help out of principle"!?!?!
What, if a mob of people want to lynch me, an xtian helps me, I should push him away outta principle?
Fucking addle-pated, that is.
Mordechai Vanunu was obviously a traitor to his country - lame fucking example.
No, Israel's not a theocracy - theocracies don't usually have 25% of the population as secular, do they?
Apartheid never had a black official.
& there is no 'ethnic cleansing' going on, if someone starts prattling about that nonsense again. Look @ the population figures.

Support for Israel violates church/state separation, pure and simple.

Oh, sure, w/draw aid to Israel, & watch the bloodbath begin.
I'm betting a few here would cheer that.

If you woke up to find a gang of armed men in your bedroom, saying "A hundred years ago this house belonged to our family. So it's still ours. You get out!" What would you think?

That's a crock of shit. The U.N did that, check your history.
The Israelis, mind you, are fighting people who use their own children as ammunition. People who'd cut your throat in a heartbeat if they knew you were kaffir.
This isn't just a black 'n white situation. Israel needs serious reform. That's hard to do w/car bombs & exploding children, I think.

Dave,

George Bush doing what he does "to promote Zionism"? Come on now!

I don't pretend to read people's minds -- especially people who don't have minds -- but Bush and his party have a sinister and very complex agenda, and the Zionists are a part of their constituency. I shudder to think what part of that constituency is more dangerous than another. They're all part of a whole.

I know this is a conspiracy theory I'm writing, and what a slippery slope that is. But I didn't crawl out on this slope on my own; I've been pushed onto it by many years of following the news and seeing the Zionist propaganda machine in action.

Frank Zindler's thoughts on Israel seem to be pretty close to my own, considering his remarks in American Atheist Magazine. As long as he can keep his job, talking about the "slow-motion genocide" against the Palestinians, I'm not worried about AA's official position. We probably couldn't do much against US support for Israel anyway, we'd be accused of political activity. Xian nonprofits can get away with that; we probably couldn't.

Unless you mean AA already has an official position -- in favor of Israel's bogus "right to exist"? If that's the case, some discussion is definitely needed.

Krystalline Apostate,

"Fucking addle-pated, that is."

Thank you for writing my response for me.

So you think, if the victims of mass murder form a "mob" to fight back, you should step in to help the poor little mass murderer? Geez, some sense of right and wrong you've got.

Have you informed Vladimir Putin how you despise all the Russian "traitors" who helped us win the Cold War? I'm sure he'd be pleased. But Vanunu was not a traitor. He was an expatriate, and a whistleblower. The Israeli democracy's secret police kidnapped him, took him back to Israel, tortured and brainwashed him. For exposing the Israeli democracy's illegal stockpile of nuclear weapons.

Before you start preaching history, you should learn some. The UN had nothing to do with starting Israel. It tried to work out a compromise to stop the fighting that the Zionist fanatics had started back in the 1800s, and the Zionists rejected it. They created their democratic state by themselves, in an armed uprising.

You needn't worry about your Zionist democracy succumbing to the debilitating effects of principle. They never have, for over a hundred years.

And all you other posters,

Will you please stop prattling "Jew" when you mean "Zionist"?

NotSoFast: From wikipedia

Zionism:
...like feminism or anarchism, is an umbrella term. Whilst there is amongst Zionists a consensus on the core value of Jewish self-determination, aside from this there are radically different visions of what Jewish self-determination ought to look like. Streams within Zionism include, Labour-Zionism, Soci@alist-Zionism, Political-Zionism, Revisionist-Zionism and Religious-Zionism.

Jewism
...as with other religions there are also people who appear to (and may in fact) have Jewish ancestry who no longer consider themselves Jewish, at least in terms of religion.

Time for phreedummy to get out of here, tired of his crap and this has always worked in the past, lets see if it works again.:)

Phreakdummy, is this a white mans nation?

Comment from: phreedm

Talk is cheap Dave...

...which must be why you keep on talking your superstitious nonsense here...

actions are what speak volumes...AA is a bigoted organization with a very narrow agenda.

which must be true, because phreakshow is aying it without anything at all to back up his paranoid delusions. Oh, wait...

The only fact that prevents AA from going after everything that's Christian is if it originates from the "Left" side of the aisle...

I think Dave was very clear in what he was doing with the post in question and why he did it. Perhaps you might actually try and discuss, you know, the topic at hand? Instead of going on an anti-atheist religiously insane rant?

Comment from: phreedm

I shamed Israel when they moved settlers into disputed areas (effectively creating human shields out of children, which really pisses me off

In much the same way, AA makes "educational shields" out of children from the inner cities when they deny a child's opportunity to leave a failing school all because they believe supporting the "myth" is more important then a child's mind...

Funny how you don't mention that, in much the same way, religiusly insane individuals like you, phreakshow, make "educational shields" out of children from their cults when they promote a child's 'opportunity' to get brainwashed with their religious insanity in a charter school all because they believe supporting their pagan occult superstitions is more important then a child's mind...

But you want to pile on to the host of this web site because you think he's harder on religiously insane christians then he is on religiously insane jews. Nice hypocritical double standards you gots there, religion boy...

Gassho.
As a practicing Buddhist (and an atheist), I am curious as to what violence Buddhists are purportedly to have perpetrated?
Aside from Aum Shinrikyo, who were behind the sarin gas attacks on Japanese subways, we are more likely to kill ourselves than engage in violence.
As Mr. Silverman mentioned in the original post, we certainly aren't a threat to any civil liberties in the U.S. We don't proselytize, or enter politics to shove our beliefs in anybody's face. So why would anybody want us attacked, when we have not done anything?
Metta.

So you think, if the victims of mass murder form a "mob" to fight back, you should step in to help the poor little mass murderer? Geez, some sense of right and wrong you've got.

Not what I said.
I see one doesn't need to be a believer in the supernatural, to have poor reading comprehension.

Have you informed Vladimir Putin how you despise all the Russian "traitors" who helped us win the Cold War?

It's not a matter of 'hate', it's seeing it the way it is. He was from any other country, that's what anyone would call him.

I know this is a conspiracy theory I'm writing, and what a slippery slope that is. But I didn't crawl out on this slope on my own; I've been pushed onto it by many years of following the news and seeing the Zionist propaganda machine in action.

That's some comic book world you live in, sport.
You poke under rocks, waiting for Jewish boogeymen to jump out, or what?
You keep living in that dream world you've constructed out of rhetoric.
I'll keep reality, thanks much.

Deepdiver,
I appreciate your patience with phreedm dodging the white man's question. He's an antagonist, not a conversationalist.

Mostly I agree with NotSoFast, both on his account of history and on American politics today.

I don't see how one can deny the overbearing influence of the zionist, or more accurately, Israel-First lobby. Why do you think that Bush recently promised Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next then years?

Politicians from both parties regularly prostrate themselves before AIPAC. A couple of years ago Nancy Pelosi made a typical brown-nosing speech to them and ended saying that she was with Israel "now and forever." Which she repeated a second time.

These people must realize that Israel is not the 51st state and that America has no obligation whatsoever to do anything for Israel, but they are politically intimidated. In fact supporting Israel works against Americans' interests.

- As to the beginnings of Israel, zionist terrorists, Shamir and Begin, assassinated UN Representative Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948 as he was preparing a plan to try to resolve the conflict. Israel was created by terrorists not the UN. Assassins later become prime ministers in "democratic" Israel.

It didn't matter to them that Bernadotte had saved thousands of people, including thousands of Jews, during WWII.

They also carried out assassinations abroad. They had a plan to kill Foreign Secretary Earnest Bevin, a plan to bomb Parliament. They did explode several bombs in London. Gosh, I wonder where islamic radicals got their ideas from?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14188.htm

From a BBC Radio 4 program called "A Date with Bevin". Also found on Radio4's site.

AAgfed,

Buddhism, like many religions, has a long history of violence. And they, like many other faiths, tend to do their best to conceal such facts.

Look to Shri Lanka and Burma for recent acts of Buddhist violence.

Comment from: (: tom :)

Funny how you don't mention that, in much the same way, religiusly insane individuals like you, phreakshow, make "educational shields" out of children from their cults when they promote a child's 'opportunity' to get brainwashed with their religious insanity in a charter school all because they believe supporting their pagan occult superstitions is more important then a child's mind...

Please back up this claim with an example...

Comment from: DeepDiver

We don't give a shit what others believe.

Oh really?

Comment from: (: tom :)

Nice hypocritical double standards you gots there, religion boy...

Back to the original thread...

Dave, can you mention one law suit you've brought against Islam in the USA?

Or aginst a Jew in the USA?

Gee Phreedm, I thought the original thread was about me PERSONALLY showing favoritism to Jews, but alas, we have digressed. We have tons of legal activity, including Muslim foot-baths at public schools and a Hebrew public school in NY that gets public funds. But yes, most of the lawsuits go against Christians, because they are MUCH more likely to break the law.

Phreedy, "Please back up this claim with an example..."

That is too easy. Are you really that ignorant or are you putting us on?

"Biblically Correct Tour Guides for Jesus"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUeoem1gR3s

These bastards are lying to the kids and making them repeat the lies. That is mental pedophilia. These "guides" are total scum.

DVW,

Can you provide actual examples or links? In Burma, the Buddhist monks there are using peaceful protest. In Sri Lanka I have found no mention of Buddhists taking up violence.

I will not deny that some violence (comparatively very very little wrt the rest of the worlds' religions) has taken place in the name of Buddhism, but that violence has as much to do with Buddhism, as the violence of the Taliban has to do with actual Islam--nothing. They are both facades behind which murderers hide.
But if you can show me proof that Buddhists have perpetrated violence, I will recant my feelings on the matter.
Keep in mind that even so, Buddhism is still not NEARLY on par with any other religion (except for maybe the Jains or the Sikhs).

Metta.

Comment from: phreedm

Please back up this claim with an example...

Please bite me and try and back up any of the religiously insane bullsh!t you spew here on a regular basis before insisting that others prove things to you.

Please stop tossing your religiously insane idiocy here before trying to critique others on their statements.

Please stop trying to claim your pagan occult superstitious nonsense has any relation to reality without any proof that your fantasies are real, and especially before you start trying to claim that what others are claiming to be true is not without any proof to back up your statements.

Oh, and by the way...

you said:

In much the same way, AA makes "educational shields" out of children from the inner cities when they deny a child's opportunity to leave a failing school all because they believe supporting the "myth" is more important then a child's mind...

Would you care to provide some sort of proof for this unsourced, unfounded allegation? It would have been preferable if you were to try and back up your bullsh!t before asking others to prove their statements. Especially when asking me to dance on your strings. After you show a lack of common decency and civility by expecting your unfounded, unsourced allegations to be accepted without question.

But then again, religiously insane Republican't Putsch fellators aren't exactly noted for their honesty, trustworthiness, or rationality...

suck it, jeebus phreak!

what:

Is it just a coincidence to you that Perle, Wolfowitz and Abrams are all jews as well as the principal propagandists in the build up to the Invasion of Iraq and its ghastly consequences.

yes, its a coincidence.

everyone knows that the jews are in control of the media.

;)

but seriously, the network that hosts the anchors has more to do with the content than the anchors themselves. If you want to start a jewish conspiracy theory with that then go ahead, but I think the war was just good for ratings in this, our bloodthirsty nation.

While we're on the topic, some of the more vocal celebrities who lombasted the war are jewish too, John Stewart and Lewis Black of comedy central fame, to name two.

(at least, I think they're both jewish)

FlyingWeasel

but seriously, the network that hosts the anchors has more to do with the content than the anchors themselves. If you want to start a jewish conspiracy theory with that then go ahead, but I think the war was just good for ratings in this, our bloodthirsty nation.

Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, and Feith were not TV anchors. These people had direct access to the "president". Wolfowitz, Perle, and Eliot Abrams made trips to Austin beginning in 1998 to convince Bush that an invasion of Iraq was necessary. BushCo came into office with the intent of building phony intelligence and invading Iraq. In December 2000 the cabal even tried to put Wolfowitz in as head of the CIA.

While we're on the topic, some of the more vocal celebrities who lombasted the war are jewish too, John Stewart and Lewis Black of comedy central fame, to name two.

I nor anybody else here is bashing all jews. My/our concern is the crazy religious ones. I would like to see Dave take aim at them more frequently.

I do not refer to the PNAC crowd as Zionists because I have never heard them use the term to refer to themselves.

I'd like to nominate Mark Levin as a worthy jew who doesn't like Atheists.

Nominate him for what?

Wolf Blitzer is a former employee of AIPAC. I didn't see that mentioned in his CNN biography. He also worked for the rightwing Israeli paper, the Jerusalem Post. He is a fanatic zionist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-8aTGnjHnI

Comment from: David Silverman

We have tons of legal activity, including Muslim foot-baths at public schools and a Hebrew public school in NY that gets public funds.

Can you provide a link to a news release about these pending cases...?

Folks,

I'm glad we aired this. If any of you see a story that's not blogged, let me know. But I'm not getting into a constant cycle of defending myself against accusations of favoritism just because I have a Jewish heritage I don't ignore. I hope I've made that point very clear.

Moving on...

Wow...sorry guys. I guess putting Dave on the spot caused him to suddenly become overly sensitive.

Dave, I guess your statement...

We have tons of legal activity, including Muslim foot-baths at public schools and a Hebrew public school in NY that gets public funds.

...is similar to Hillary's recent recollection about her trip to Bosnia...

david silverman
what banks do you control and aren't jews just muslims without oil.i can't tell arab from hebrew you people all look the same to me.i may not like arabs or jews but thank god i ain't an anti semite.jesus didn't hate jews because he was christian i'm not sure what denomination i suspect it was rev.hagee's church though.

Reason -- you have it backwards. Muslims are Jews WITH oil.

Dave

I "PUT UP" and it now looks like you expect me to "SHUT UP". But you still have not responded to my questions about Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams and Feith. Do you denounce the Zionists and those jews that sold this POS Invasion and Occupation of Iraq?

Dave

Here download the images on this page when he need to refer to crazy rabbis.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=97536

Or how about this crazy rabbi

http://tinyurl.com/create.php

Dave:

I find the concept of the Jewish atheist to be incredibly ridiculous. Yes I understand that some Jews claim a Jewish culture exists removed from the Jewish religion but IMO, this independence is quite tenuous. Too many traditions are too closely entangled with religious ones. Yes, you can celebrate Passover as a secular holiday, but it isn't. However, that's not my most important arguement concerning your so-called Jewish atheism.

You're an atheist. I don't doubt that. However, you've crossed the easy bridge. You've easily dismissed the notion of the divine, a step completed by anyone who wasn't subjected to gross amounts of childhood indoctrination. But you haven't dismissed the just as absurd, and potentially dangerous concept, of cultural collectivism. Groups, Jews are especially notorious for this, define their members solely in terms of their inclusion in the group. You can imagine how this dismissal of individualism can become volatile. You simply do not have the strength of character to stand alone. to embrace your individuality. Instead, you inexorably link yourself to a larger group. You define so much of who you are, and I assume others as well, by the arbitrary circumstances of your birth. It's easy to reject the Bible, it's far more difficult to understand that what you're born into is not necessarily who you are.

aagfed, you just have to do a search on "buddhist violence in sri lanka" to get as many examples as you want. Here is one.

"In addition to military battles between the Tamil Tigers and government forces, there have been other ethnic and religious clashes. Contrary to the traditional image of their religion, militant Buddhists have also attacked Muslims and Christians.



One monk has called for a holy war against the Tamils and has written songs for soldiers going into battle. One urges them not to return home until their weapons are "smeared with blood," and it also promises that they will attain Nirvana by defending their Buddhist homeland.



During 2003-04, 165 Sri Lankan Christian churches were attacked, resulting in the complete destruction of some, the stoning of parsonages, the smashing of statues, and the burning the Bibles and hymnals. This year Buddhist nationalists are urging Christians to cancel Christmas celebrations, and militants regularly attempt to close down Christians services. On September 14, a church in the town of Mannar was torched and burned to the ground."

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/slrvcol.htm

Even buddhist sites discuss the problem.

- In the past, I have said that I think Dave does a very good job. I hope that my comments here or previously are not seen as criticism of him, as that has not been my intention.

Phreedum:
Yep, don't care what fantisy world your people live in. We don't want it shoved in our face every day, or any day for that matter.


Now go away.

Comment from: phreedm

Wow...sorry guys. I guess putting Dave on the spot caused him to suddenly become overly sensitive.

Faux pity from a faux christian. How appropriate!

I do find it interesting to see the hypocrisy involved with someone who cannot defend any of the irrational, unfounded, unsourced allegations he pouts on this blog thinking that others might be overly sensitive if they don't respond to the pathetic dribble spewing from their vacuous pie=hole.

Maybe after you've been explaining and supporting all of the crap you spew here for a few years, then you might have the right to dare to ask this question. As it is, maybe you should stop with the gratuitous insults to the host of the web site, and start with the rational discussion of issues once in a while.

You hypocritical, cowardly, blasphemous, religiously insane Putsch fellating Republican't.

Bernarda

I hope that my comments here or previously are not seen as criticism of him, as that has not been my intention.

Hmm. I have been giving to AA for many years and Dave is a spokesperson for AA. I am obliged to criticize Dave when I think he is displaying favoritism to a particular religion that is no less destructive than the rest.

(: tom :)


"Please stop trying to claim your nonsense has any relation to reality without any proof that your fantasies are real, and especially before you start trying to claim that what others are claiming to be true is not, without any proof to back up your statements."

Do you own the copyright on that line?

Mind if I use it?

What -- we never spoke about Zionism, which yes I wholeheartedly reject (and always have). I meant it when I wrote that I didn't care if the money granted to Israel went to some other state in the area that gave us a better political position.

I also hold no allegiance whatsoever to anyone of any race/religion that has done wrong, and the Jews you mentioned are certainly no exception.

Dontno, if you say that, then you have to include everyone that calls themselves American, Italian, or black. Sorry. Gotta disagree.

Ber, nothing here is personal. Criticism was solicited in this post. All is fair.

Dave

Thanks for the reasonable post.

What -- we never spoke about Zionism,

Practically speaking I think we were discussing Zionism. I just was not using the term for the reason I stated.

Do you think Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams and Feith are Zionists? Do you reject Zionism?

I really don't know what you were trying to say i this sentence:

Dontno, if you say that, then you have to include everyone that calls themselves American, Italian, or black. Sorry. Gotta disagree.

Dontno asserted:

But you haven't dismissed the just as absurd, and potentially dangerous concept, of cultural collectivism. Groups, Jews are especially notorious for this, define their members solely in terms of their inclusion in the group. You can imagine how this dismissal of individualism can become volatile. You simply do not have the strength of character to stand alone. to embrace your individuality. Instead, you inexorably link yourself to a larger group. You define so much of who you are, and I assume others as well, by the arbitrary circumstances of your birth.

On this basis he attacks my holding to any kind of Jewish identity, saying that I am giving up individuality for a group mentality. To which I responded that any group fits that description.

I don't know if the Jews to whom you referred are Zionists. They could just be war-mongoring assholes who "happen to be Jewish".

And once again, for the record, I have never been a Zionist, and hold no allegiance to Israel except as it benefits the USA. I'm just an Atheist -- who "happens to be Jewish"

Dave

Thank you for your perspective.

I agree with Dontno that "cultural collectivism" is a problem. Unlike Italians and blacks (your examples) jewish religion is intertwined with the notion of jewish ethnicity making the "cultural collectivism" of the jews a "religious collectivism" as well. This fact should then be of concern to AA since AA's mission is concerned primarily with religion not culture.

Dave:

Here's why it's different for Jews. I've heard countless individuals describe themselves as Jewish atheists. Never have I heard someone describe himself as an Italian atheist, Greek atheist, or Portuguese atheist. Why do Jews find it so necessary to qualify their atheism with an ethnic/cultural distinction? Why do they find it so necessary to define themselves with the Jewish title?

That reasoning is in the context of atheism. In the context of simply defining oneself with regards to a collective, there's a slight difference between say Italians and Jews/blacks/other minorities. Yes, all these groups are guilty of cultural collectivism, but the Jewish version represents a more thorough definition of oneself because it constitutes a very small minority group. Italian and other European cultures have been adopted as mainstream in America. So an Italian who eats spaghetti and ravioli and uses terms found often in Rocky is not engaging in behavior that diverges excessively from mainstream American culture. Jewish traditions (and stereotypical black behavior and speech patterns) is far removed from the mainstream. By defining oneself as Jewish, you willfully disassociate much of who you are away from the mainstream, thus engaging in isolation. Thus, you allow yourself and others to easily define you as simply belonging to a small group rather than the unique person that you probably are. This knee jerk definition of minorities is not only unwarranted (assuming culture itself is entirely arbitrary), but often leads to racial and ethnic conflict.

I'd love to hear others' views on this topic.

To be clear (again) I only call myself a Jewish Atheist when pressed. 95% of the time I just use Atheist.

This specific thread dealt with my apparent favoritism to jews, allegedly because of that 5% of the time when I use the Jewish qualifier.

dontno:

Never have I heard someone describe himself as an Italian atheist, Greek atheist, or Portuguese atheist.

They've got a new invention out. It's called GOOGLE. Try running a search on those items.
An hysterical comment, in lieu of the title of the blog: A Free Service for Atheists from American Atheists.
I've met Portuguese atheists online. There are groups all over Europe. I think there's an Irish Atheist group. Try googling that. There's groups of atheists all over the states: surely, you'll not try to disqualify their using their state names in the title?

KA

I think you are deliberately missing Dontno's point. When someone says they are a jewish atheist the intent of the phrase (in my experience) is to say "I am jewish BUT I am an atheist". When someone says that they are an Irish atheist the intent is to say "I am irish AND I am an atheist".

@ what:
Agreed.

KA:
When someone says Jewish atheist, they're using Jewish as an ethnicity. I've never heard an American of Italian ethnicity say they are an Italian atheist. It's not an analogous situation to the Jewish atheist if they're a citizen of Italy (as in American atheists as well).

I just don't understand why Jewish atheists consistently make mention of their ethnicity in the context of atheist discussions. I almost never know the ethnicity of atheists online, unless they're Jewish and in that case, it'll definitely be mentioned.

Dave

I don't know if the Jews to whom you referred are Zionists. They could just be war-mongoring assholes who "happen to be Jewish".

These aren't just your run-of-the-mill war mongers. These are the principal propagandists that sold us this invasion and occupation of Iraq.

What, "I think you are deliberately missing Dontno's point."

You have understood almost everything about that poster.

Comment from: NotSoFast

Do you own the copyright on that line?

Mind if I use it?

I shameless appropriate any meme that I think might be good for the general population to get inside their melons. Streal all you want.

Here's one of my current faves:

Q: Why don't you get married?

A: Marriage is an institution - and I'm not ready to be institutionalized just yet...

...just make sure you check the spelling first...

What:

I think you are deliberately missing Dontno's point.

No, I'm not.
Dontno:

When someone says Jewish atheist, they're using Jewish as an ethnicity.

It is an ethnicity. It's also a race. (Look up the term 'race' as well.)
The science dictionary defines it thusly:
Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=ethnicity&gwp=16

"and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language"

In other words, godly types who believe in some holy book and its superstitions. Even belief in corporal mutilation of infants like circumcision.

For nearly 2,000 years jews did not speak Hebrew. It was only the advent of zionism that made it a new language.

It is a simple fact that Jews are not as much of a threat to atheism as Christians or Muslims are today. That being said we give millions of dollars to a Jewish state that funds specifically religious things. As for the example of people not being hurt by Judaism, look at some of the not so recent activities by the ADL. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_defamation_league

As for the Jewish Atheist I take offense when people say once a jew always a jew. I was brainwashed into being jewish when I was a child and have since distanced myself from the faith. I in no way consider myself to be a jew in any sense of the word.

Concerning political/religious cartoons, Dave is always more than willing to go out of his way to insult Christianity and Islam but safeguard and protect Judaism and Zionism.
He denies this, but as we can see in the 09/04/07 Post:
"Some things never change"
http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/
index.php/2007/09/04/
some_things_never_change#comments

Dave attacks any criticism of Israel and Zionism as being "Anti-Semitic" in typical jew fashion. Dave claims he doesn't favor Judaism, however, he always does just that with hostility and venom, whether he realizes it or not. Could be an unconscious action due to a life of being brainwashed by Judaism and it being a reflex to point the finger and scream "anti-semite", "Holocaust denier", "Hitler", etc whenever somebody doesn't treat judaism and Israel like a sacred cow.

If Dave wants cartoons about zionist jews, he can just google "Latuff" or goto:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/
article.php?pg=11&ar=176

And just because Dave can name some other deluded so-called atheists who are still suffering from jewish brainwashing and still believe they are a race all their own, the Europeans, Africans, Hispanics, Asians, MiddleEasterners, etc who believe in Judaism does not mean anything other than we have the names of atheists openly deluded by jewish dogma. Some of them being rabid zionists.

Makes as much sense as an Amish turned Atheist calling himself a Xian Atheist, because of his "Xian culture" which he also believes to be a race and supports a pure Xian state and killing innocent people to get it.

Dave openly admits "celebrating" jewish holidays in his writings, including Passover, which he nows claims is just eating at his moms house comparing it to Xmas dinner.
Well, eating a Xmas dinner is alot different than going to Temple or taking part in religious rituals at a home in celebration of the mass murder of non-jewish infants and demonzing those arab egyptians.

Want another example of Dave's favoritism of judaism and jewish loyalty, goto the 07/09/07 blog post: "Pope -- how low can you go??"
http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/
index.php/2007/07/09/pope_how_low_can_you_go
#comments

Or 02/08/06, "Muslims Kill... Again"
02/25/07, "When stupid ignorant people elect stupid ignorant congressmen" supporting Israel's ADL
06/21/05, "What kind of Atheist are you?"
05/01/05, "Jewish Atheism"
or Daves absurd, faith-based writing "A Jewish Atheist"

And if Dave believes that the jewish lobby, such as AIPAC and the US faith based funding of Israels faith based ethnic cleansing campaign of Palestine is of no importance or having any impact on Americans, he better start making some requests for a clue.

Dave should realize that a religious group trying to use the government to convert citizens is not the only threat to civil liberties. The jews don't want converts, they want influence and control and special rights and privileges, especially the zionists and done with discretion. Unlike the "in your face" tactics of the xians. Look at how the ADL infiltrates almost all levels of schools and government. After all, they believe themselves to be the master race, er.. chosen people, a very strict country club that wants to keep all the goyim out, unless they work as the help.