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Christ in the U.S. military...Revolting, it will probably be taken down from Youtube soon. Hard to stomach...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq5_vG3cYGM

OT:

Sunday morning the CBS "Sunday Morning" news 'magazine' featured a piece on xianity being pushed in the military. Jeremy Hall was interviewed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/27/sunday/main4048492.shtml

I saw this story the other day and it made me sick. That's just not what is taught at all in Christianity or the Bible. War brings out the worst in people (see Abu Graib)

Comment from: uoflcard [Member]
That's just not what is taught at all in Christianity or the Bible.

That is *precisely* what is taught in the Bible. Recall one of the children of Israel being stoned to death for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? I'd say this is light compared to that level of intolerance.

UFO

War brings out the worst in people

And religion brings out the war in people.

Get off your High horse U-ofl-card, that is exactly what christianity and the bible teaches and you know it. Christianity brings out the worst in people (See current affairs and world history). It is disgusting how you christians keep twisting reality and deceiving people.

Atheist soldier speaks out about lawsuit


http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=19973

OT
Those xian parents in WI who let their daughter die from untreated Type 1 diabetes have been charged with second degree manslaughter. Apparently prayer doesn't work but medical science does. Let's hope that they are made an example of and receive the maximum punishment. Life in prison without parole wouldn't be excessive for these monsters.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=744614

This is supposed to be our elite military who fear no enemy and yet they fear an invisible man in the sky?
I believe in plexiglass too and proper armor for that matter.

And yes it was rather appalling to hear that story about those xtians who let their daughter die. I wonder what excuse they'll use in court. Hopefully the jury is educated on matters of science v. fantasy.

Alex

The parents of that child thought that the child would rise from the dead after a day or so. The death penalty would not be excessive for them. After all, they would just rise form the dead.

Digital

This is supposed to be our elite military who fear no enemy and yet they fear an invisible man in the sky?

Brilliant!

Ben Stein will, no doubt, come to the aid of these murdering "parents" just as he has come to the aid of the mass-rapist FLDS church.

That's just not what is taught at all in Christianity or the Bible.

Since the Bible can be interpreted any number of ways, it really depends on who's doing the teaching/interpreting.

Want a vile form of Christianity? Talk to the flame-throwing evangelists. Want a peace-loving form of Christianity? Talk to the ex-hippies. Want a lip-servicing form of Christianity? Talk to the politicians. Want an atheistic form of Christianity? Talk to Thomas Jefferson (well, read his book).

What,
Thank you.

digital-eyes is back!

I hope the parents get convicted and receive the maximum sentence. I read this story earlier, but alex's link had a lot more detail. It also points out that this may be a precedent setting case because of the religious allowances that people have till now gotten away with.

Life sentences or the death penalty are not on the table. Maximum is 25 years. I bet they won't even get that. A conviction would be a foot in the right direction, however. And since the father says he wouldn't hesitate to use the same means on another sick child, their other children should be removed from their care permanently.

karen says:

And since the father says he wouldn't hesitate to use the same means on another sick child, their other children should be removed from their care permanently.

Absolutely!

The parents should also be sterilized.

Check out this website for more on the problem of children dying because their parents prayed them to death.

http://www.childrenshealthcare.org/

Unfortunately there is a loophole law that they can use.

Wisconsin law, Section 948.04 (6) states: "A person is NOT guilty of an offense under this section solely because he or she provides a child with treatment by spiritual means through prayer alone for healing…" Also in Section 448.04 (6) it states: "No law of this state regulating the practice of medicine and surgery may be construed to interfere with the practice of Christian Science. A person who elects Christian Science treatment in lieu of medical or surgical treatment for the cure of disease may not be compelled to submit to medical or surgical treatment." This section appears to refer to the application of Christian Healing as "Christian Science," since no reference is given to indicate it means a particular denomination such as the "Church of Scientology." And the writing of any law to protect only one denomination would violate the equal protection guaranteed under the constitution by protecting one sect over another.

I hope that this causes the law to be abolished and the get sent to prison to reflect on what they did not do.

The Bible requires believers to spread the word to unbelievers. The Great Commission is one of the more common motifs of the NT. Any Christian who fails to do so is disobeying orders from God.

It must come down to priorities. Does a believer obey human rules and laws, or God's?

I suspect Maj. Freddy J. Welborn felt threatened in his own convictions and that's why he couldn't tolerate knowing that others were secure in their doubts.




So, if Christians never execute disobedient children by stonings anymore, why is the requirement still in the Bible?

This section appears to refer to the application of Christian Healing as "Christian Science," since no reference is given to indicate it means a particular denomination such as the "Church of Scientology."

Christian Science specifically refers to the Church of Christ, Scientist, and I would have to think that this is what the Wisconsin law is intended to mean - certainly not Scientology. Christian Science "practitioners" pray and study with their clients to supposedly achieve healing, and even the federal government considers the services of a Christian Science practioner to be a legitimate "medical" expense as far as income tax deductions go.

Interestingly, if a Christian Scientist does decide to seek real medical help, the practitioners and fellow church members won't have anything to do with them anymore. Real nice people. Not.

The parents in this particular case are not Christian Scientists, BTW.

bot

I was glad to see Jeremy Hall's story break into the mainstream media. When, ostensibly, we are supposed to be fighting religiously intolerant terrorists, this story becomes very revealing of the real mindset at work here. Are we sending soldiers to fight and die for "freedom", or as part of a religious war.

At the very least we need a very clear statement from the powers-that-be that atheists have as much right to serve in the military as anyone, and have as much right to express their beliefs (or lack thereof).

And, if the charges hold, Maj. Welborn must be held accountable.

To stay OT

This issue unfortunately seems to be complicated....

and the reason for the complication seems to be how religion sux....

I agree that people should be protected under the first amendment to practice thier fairy tales in the privacy of thier own tax free clubs....however...thier daughter has rights to....the right to live on this planet....and the right to live on this planet is certainly verifiable....

my vote is that individual rights supersede the right to practice silly superstitious rituals...

I taught the Bible for many years to church groups. Preaching included, over 2,000 times.

The essence of the Bible could be reduced to one class period. Viz - The Old Testament purports to be the family history of one Abraham and his wife Sarah. It tracks the family history from tribal beginnings to national status over a period 1,500 years. 2000-1500 BCE the era of patriarchs. 1500-1000 BCD the era of judges and prophets. 1000-500 BCE the kingdom era. 500-0 BCE The intertestament and Hasmonean era. 0-100 AD the worlds most successful religious cult arises; it's urban legends are believed and effect world history for the next 2,000 years.

End of class.

Comment from: DD Dropout

So, if Christians never execute disobedient children by stonings anymore, why is the requirement still in the Bible?

Simple answer...really. Even a fraud can answer that question...and still have 59 minutes left to finish his class...

DD,
I would also like to know why xians in America lose their minds when it comes to homosexuality, which is never mentioned by jesus, yet they seem to tolerate divorce which jesus spoke strongly against.

Alex

I think Seinfeld did a stand-up routine about men and their low-sales resistance. Some guys, Phreek for example, are fearful that they could actually be talked into switching teams.

Phreedm,

Simple answer...really. Even a fraud can answer that question...and still have 59 minutes left to finish his class...

Why do you dodge questions?

If they're so simple, answer them.

Because he is beneath a fraud.

Seeker
It sounds like a variation on the "I see you failed to connect the dots" answer given to DeepDiver on the "Is this a white mans country?" question.

Those Q.E.D. parties must be pretty lonely.

What,

Because he is beneath a fraud.

Beneath? There's no need to sugar-coat it, any objective third party would come to that conclusion within a few threads of reading his posts.

That is *precisely* what is taught in the Bible. Recall one of the children of Israel being stoned to death for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? I'd say this is light compared to that level of intolerance.

That was before the teachings of Jesus

Get off your High horse U-ofl-card, that is exactly what christianity and the bible teaches and you know it. Christianity brings out the worst in people (See current affairs and world history). It is disgusting how you christians keep twisting reality and deceiving people.

I'm not trying to be on a high-horse, soap box, or any other self-righteous speaking apparatus. But THIS is what we're taught...again, nothing like what persecution the atheist in this story suffered...

Jesus Christ:

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:38:45 RSV)

This is the one that we were sent to follow. You don't think the actions of the Christian soldiers in this story were contradictory to teaching like this?

And religion brings out the war in people.

Obviously religion has been at the heart of many wars. So has money, power, land, oil, anger, greed, lust and fear, among many other factors. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to pin war strictly on religion, which is very commonly done on this blog.

UFO

The invasion of Iraq would never have happened without the backing of the religious right - a bunch of ignorant racist war mongers that would do anything for the opportunity to get a couple of conservative appointments to the supreme court. Man were you scammed.

Jesus Christ:

As you christians KNOW already you can pick a piece out of your bib-el to support anything you want; war, torture, child abuse, love, hate and, everything in between. Christianity has proven to be worthless at advancing the civility of humans, look at the shrub and his regime; all are less than civilized humans and yet all were and/or are still supported by christians. In fact, a sizable portion of christians still want the same for the future, see the christian support for McShrub. And the call for acknowledging at least support of christianity from the remainder of the candidates.

If you christians want respect, do something respectful. Get your mythology out of government. The great and vast majority of christians are disgusting.