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Post details: When Freedom goes too far - FLDS

04/29/08

10:03:48 pm, Categories: Announcements [A], 369 words

When Freedom goes too far - FLDS

SAN MARCOS, Texas (AP) — One of the hundreds of young polygamist-sect members taken into state custody gave birth Tuesday to a healthy boy while child welfare officials, state troopers and fellow sect members stood watch outside the maternity ward.

"The boy is healthy and the mother is doing well," Patrick Crimmins, spokesman for the state Child Protective Services, said of the noontime birth at Central Texas Medical Center.

The mother is "younger than 18," Crimmins said, and will remain with her new son in a nearby foster-care facility until a formal custody hearing will determine the pair's fate sometime before June 5. Crimmins declined to give any other details about the girl or where she and the baby would stay.
...
On Monday, CPS announced that almost 60 percent of the underage girls living on the Eldorado ranch either have children or are pregnant.

Of the 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 who are in state custody, 31 either have given birth or are expecting, Azar said.

Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but none of these girls is believed to have a legal marriage under state law.

Church officials have denied that any children were abused at the ranch and say the state's actions are a form of religious persecution.

Folks, some issues are tougher than others. This one is easy. Religious freedom is fine, until a child is endangered. You can raise your kids to be uneducated and brainwashed, but you can't subject them to rape or withhold medicine from them until they die. This is when the line is crossed.

Yes, brainwashing kids is DEFINITELY hurtful, but it's a judgmental hurtful (anyone can use the same argument against anyone else). We have to allow people to raise their kids as they see fit -- within REASON!

Forcefully impregnating teenagers is physical abuse, and anyone involved with this has to be punished severely. There should be no leniency just because religion is involved. All these wretched adults need to go to prison, and all the other wretched people in the country need to see it happen (as a deterrent).

Anything less is religious discrimination.

29 comments

Comments:

Comment from: GodFree&Glad [Member]

Amen!

I saw Ben Stein on TV Sunday saying how terrible the State of Texas is and that these children should be given back to their parents because not one case of child abuse has been detected.

Evidently Ben does not view impregnating children as abuse. Of course, one would not expect anyone who believes in Intelligent Design to be actually rational, I suppose.

04/29/08 @ 23:08

Comment from: Seeker ☺ [Member] · http://www.peteseeker.com/

Pardon the rant, but to be consistent authorities should raid the nation's government schools.

"...a major 2004 study commissioned by the U.S. Department of Education, nearly 10 percent of U.S. public school students reported having been targeted with sexual attention by school employees. Indeed, it has been claimed that sexual harassment and abuse by teachers is 100 times more frequent than abuse by
priests." [copied]

What's good for the goose...

04/29/08 @ 23:34

Comment from: atheistmike [Member]

Seeker, are you going to raid the Air Force Academy, too?

04/29/08 @ 23:40

Comment from: rna2dna [Member]

It has been claimed that 87% of older christians that work with children have sexual motivations. That claim has not been proven false, that is the Truth.

04/30/08 @ 01:34

Comment from: What [Member]

Seeker

I'm betting that you copied that lie from wikipedia or you read it directly on WorldNutDaily. If you got it from wikipedia then you conveniently left off the line which followed and reads:

However, it has been countered that some of these claims are groundless, either deliberate false accusations or misunderstandings resulting from misinterpretation of what is and is not permissable.

If you got it from WorldNutDaily then shame on you. I just read the prevalence section of the report cited in WorldNut (not a study as claimed by WorldNut but rather a review of a half dozen indirect studies). This quote was notable:

As a group, these studies present a wide range of estimates of the percentage of U.S. students subject to sexual misconduct by school staff and vary from 3.7 to 50.3 percent

Anytime you see stats that vary that much a huge red flag should go up emblazoned with the letters BS.

These kids in the FLDS compound were raped and of course any reasonable person would see that as being severely in contrast to sexual harassment in general.

Lock the goose and the gander both up. Why do you defend one by misdirecting to the other?

04/30/08 @ 02:07

Comment from: What [Member]

copied that lie -> copied that line

or maybe not.

04/30/08 @ 02:07

Comment from: What [Member]

OT

McCain and Clinton want to cut the gas tax. How economically ignorant can one be?

04/30/08 @ 03:29

Comment from: DeepDiver [Member]

What:

I was beginning to think I was the only one that thought that. Cutting taxes will do nothing.

Some strong steps need to be taken. Such as.

1st Make it mandatory that all government workers where at all feasible, work 4 10 hour days. Encourage private companies to do the same. Work weeks of Mon – Thu and Tue – Friday. This would help cut down on gas.

2nd Pull our bases overseas back to the states. Put them on our border. Keep our money here.

3rd Open up Alaska for oil as a temp measure.

4th Put the government behind the funding and encourage programs for alternative energy. Such as the Ultimate Capacitor for vehicles.

5th More wind, solar etc, and screw the corn energy and such.

Electric cars are the way we need to go. More natural energy power sources also. Encourage and give more tax benefit relief for solar panels and such on homes and businesses.

These are just some of my solutions, and I see nothing being done by our leaders.

Oh, and Dave, you are wrong. Raising a kid uneducated is child abuse.

04/30/08 @ 06:49

Comment from: David Silverman [Member] · http://www.atheists.org/

Deep, But if we take that stance they can say the same thing about us. This is the problem with relative morality. Many Xtians will say that raising a kid without religion is abuse, because it subjects them to eternity in Hell. This yields an immediate impasse.

Better to concentrate on that with which we mostly agree -- physical child abuse, which is definitely illegal. The point here is that we NOT allow religious people to commit child abuse just because theiy are religious.

04/30/08 @ 10:38

Comment from: TXatheist [Member] · http://txatheist.blogspot.com

This is why I think JW's should be imprisoned for letting a child die because of their stance on blood donations. If a person is 18 and denies a blood donation because of their religion then that's the adult's choice, but a kid has been spoonfed that a blood transfusion is a sin.

04/30/08 @ 10:47

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

Comment from: What

McCain and Clinton want to cut the gas tax. How economically ignorant can one be?

Obviously you've just answered your own question...

Comment from: DeepDiver

Cutting taxes will do nothing.

You've got to be kidding...you're also answering "What's" question...

As I stated in another thread...the economy didn't start having trouble until after the Dems took control in 2006. That's factual...

And while everyone else is tightening their financial belts...the government is on a hiring spree...

Governments added 76,800 jobs in the first three months of 2008, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports.

That's the biggest jump in first-quarter hiring since a boom in 2002 that followed the 9/11 terrorist attacks. By contrast, private companies collectively shed 286,000 workers in the first three months of 2008. That job loss has led many economists to declare the country is in a recession.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20080430/1a_lede30_dom.art.htm?

Electric cars are the way we need to go.

And exactly where will you get all of that electricity they'll need when they're plugged in to charge...???

04/30/08 @ 10:59

Comment from: rna2dna [Member]

DeepDiver,

1st Make it mandatory that all government workers where at all feasible, work 4 10 hour days. Encourage private companies to do the same. Work weeks of Mon – Thu and Tue – Friday. This would help cut down on gas.

I don't know how things work where you live but, where I live people drive more on their days off than they do on the days they work.

2nd Pull our bases overseas back to the states. Put them on our border. Keep our money here.

Might be a good idea but, I don't understand how it will change oil consumption.

3rd Open up Alaska for oil as a temp measure.

That seems like it would help but, it won't. There isn't enough oil there to provide any meaningful help. However, it would increase profits for the oil industry.

4th Put the government behind the funding and encourage programs for alternative energy. Such as the Ultimate Capacitor for vehicles.

That could work. However, since the shrub has seen fit to allow an economic policy that has removed almost all restriction from business including financial businesses, we really don't have any place to get funding except higher taxes. As a nation we are close to being tapped out financially.

5th More wind, solar etc, and screw the corn energy and such.

Isn't Bush an idiot, jebus christ! (Note: to christians, get your religion out of government.) Wind, solar, etc. is good as long as it makes sense environmentally.

Electric cars are the way we need to go. More natural energy power sources also. Encourage and give more tax benefit relief for solar panels and such on homes and businesses.

Electric cars might work but, that means lots more electricity will be needed and supplementing the supply with solar panels should help some, I agree.

However, petroleum is not our only major problem. The real problem is that the world population of hmans is not sustainable without lowering what is considered quality of life. But, even then with an increasing world population that solution is only temporary and places the burden on the next generation.

Fact is, the only meaningful solution is to limit human population.

Many sustainiblity problems have their roots in living life based on 2000 year old christian ideas.

04/30/08 @ 11:04

Comment from: alexatheist [Member]

Fact is, the only meaningful solution is to limit human population.

HIV is doing a good job of this already, especially in the Third World.

04/30/08 @ 11:12

Comment from: GT5463a [Member]

Wearing a condom will fix both human overpopulation and HIV epidemic. They are cheap, effective, and readily available. If only god wouldn't send you to the eternal pits of hell for wearing one.......

04/30/08 @ 12:48

Comment from: What [Member]

Too funny. The mental midget Phreeky digs himself in deeper. Let's wait and see how long it takes for this idiot to realize why the summer time elimination of the gas tax wont help the consumer but will simply shift the tax into the pockets of big oil. There I even gave the dufus a hint. What a dolt.

04/30/08 @ 12:51

Comment from: What [Member]

McCains plan shifts the gas tax into the pocket of big oil. Clintons shifts it into the pocket of big oil and then takes some of it back. Too funny. This should be part of an intelligence test. Dumbass republicans.

04/30/08 @ 12:53

Comment from: What [Member]

GT5463a

Exactly! Overpopulation is the central issue. Either we limit our population or nature will do it for us. Nature shows no mercy.

Are you related to GT5463b?

04/30/08 @ 12:57

Comment from: GT5463a [Member]

The gas tax is about $0.18 per gallon. Gas will go from $4.00 a gallon to $3.82 a gallon. I know that Exxon will pass those savings directly to me. Woohoo! My budget is balanced! I can retire early! Woohoo!

04/30/08 @ 12:58

Comment from: TXatheist [Member] · http://txatheist.blogspot.com

Don't feed the troll.

04/30/08 @ 14:42

Comment from: DeepDiver [Member]

phreedm:

And exactly where will you get all of that electricity they'll need when they're plugged in to charge...???

You are like too many naysayers out there. I suppose, lets do nothing is your idea? More solar, wind, hydroelectric power, nuclear, thermal, etc.

They have solar kits that you can buy for your house that will charge a home battery so when you get home, you plug it in and charge your car from that.

rna2dna:
Pulling our bases back will help our economy, not do anything for the gas.

True people drive alot on Saturday, but that is because they have things to do like shopping etc..

Also, why not start taxing these televangelists. That will generate some income.

Stop sending money to foreign countrys. Those billions can be used here. Saudi sure as hell does not need it. Same with most if not all the others. Build up our homeland first, then others. Secure our borders first. So many things we need to do here and stop being the world police.

04/30/08 @ 14:57

Comment from: What [Member]

Someone should calculate the energy savings that could be had if people would not drive to churches, mosques and synagogues in the US.

04/30/08 @ 17:46

Comment from: DeepDiver [Member]

what:

That is a good one.

04/30/08 @ 19:17

Comment from: reason [Member]

david is right stick to what everyone agrees is wrong [child abuse].
is there more abuse now or just better reporting.i can't see how anyone these days can not understand having sex with a minor is wrong.

04/30/08 @ 23:39

Comment from: DeepDiver [Member]

reason and dave:
I consider bringing up a child that can not read, write, or do math is abuse. How can the child function in the world. I am not saying that we force feed them evolution. If their parents say, we don't want it, fine. At least with the basics, they will have a mind to think with in the future.

There are different forms of abuse than physical.

05/01/08 @ 06:19

Comment from: alatham [Member]

I agree with DeepDiver,

The Amish won't let their children learn more than a 3rd grade education. That is also a form of abuse.

05/01/08 @ 10:10

Comment from: alatham [Member]

Whoah, whoah, big error.

The Amish educate up until 8th grade, not 3rd. My mistake.

Still abusive, but not nearly as bad.

05/01/08 @ 10:12

Comment from: phreedm [Member]

Comment from: DeepDiver

You are like too many naysayers out there. I suppose, lets do nothing is your idea? More solar, wind, hydroelectric power, nuclear, thermal, etc.

Naysayer? Hardly. Just practical.

They have solar kits that you can buy for your house that will charge a home battery so when you get home, you plug it in and charge your car from that.

This concept would work in about 2% of the USA...and not for 52 weeks a year either...

I am all for solar, wind and nuclear energy. Technology simply hasn't caught up with our needs yet.

The ONLY way to solve our problems in the short term is to produce more oil and build more refineries.

Instead, you have morons who believe that those who supply these needs, are our enemies..

05/02/08 @ 07:47

Comment from: FlyingWeasel [Member]

phreem:

if we don't start weaning ourselves off oil, there is no incentive for industry to develop alternative technologies.

except tax breaks

oh but wait, now we're giving a tax break on gas, the exact OPPOSITE of what we should do to foster alternative power/fuel.

05/02/08 @ 17:29

Comment from: What [Member]

My next door neighbor's family of five ran their four bedroom five year old home off nothing but solar energy and was dumping energy onto the grid every month.

As soon as the housing market nears bottom we will be buying and going solar.

Phreeky is just an idiot that gets his tech new from deaf, dumb and stupid Rush Limpbone.

05/05/08 @ 00:27

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