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Ellen Johnson has been a great president and will be missed.

I'm happy that she will remain on the board of directors.

Thank you Ellen for your service. Good luck in whatever you choose to to do now. I'm glad you will remain on the Board of Directors.

I'm sure Frank will make an excellent President Pro Temp. Thank you Frank, for stepping in. I think Frank, if willing, would be a good candidate for the permanent position. But I would be interested to know who else the board might be considering. I don't suppose we will be privy to that info?

Thank you Ellen, Frank and Dave!

thanks Ellen glad to see you stay on the board,glad to see Dave will remain at post.Frank is a good choice.looks like a strong team is moving forward.

I'm sorry to see Ellen Johnson step down, but of course glad she's staying on the board. As I read down the announcement I wondered who would step in, and I was pleased to see Frank Zindler's name. I have the same confidence in Mr. Zindler that I had in Ms. Johnson.

Thanks to both of you for your past and future service!

Thank you Ellen Johnson, Frank Zindler, and Dave Silverman.

Thanks very much, Ellen, for your efforts on behalf of atheists everywhere. And good luck, Frank - I hope that you are successful in your search, and also in your leadership during the interim while you search for a new prez.

Good luck to all, and thanks for your service!

My thanks to Ellen Johnson for her past service. I would respectfully suggest that it is a good thing for any organization to have a change of leadership on a very regular basis in order to bring in new ideas and different perspectives.

I am not suggesting at all that this is the case with American Atheists, because I really don't know anything about the inner workings...but...an organization, especially a membership type organization, that is led by "big shoes" can have the tendency to get off track or swayed too much by whoever is in those oversized zapatas. Just my two cents.

Thanks Ellen. I think that you were an excellent president.

This announcement was a bit of a shock to me. Could Dave elaborate?

Thank you for your service, Ellen! You did a very admirable job.

I was fortunate enough to be amongst about 10 other people to enjoy a dinner/meeting with her, one beautiful June evening. She was very gracious, intelligent, and everything you'd expect her to be. After I met her, I was reassured knowing she was at the helm of AA.

Personally, I think Frank will do a great job, trying to fill those 'shoes'.

What,

I'm not a board member, and so I have little knowledge as to "what happened". All I know is that it DID happen, we're all still friends, and Ellen remains on our board.

I also know Frank has some pretty big shoes to fill until we bring in Ellen's permanent replacement -- but Frank has pretty big feet!

Dave

Thanks. Please keep us posted if you get any reliable info about what happened.

OT

Yesterday, more than 25,000 dockworkers in 29 West Coast ports stayed off the job in order to protest the Iraq war, according to the International Longshore and Warehouse Union. “Longshore workers are standing down on the job and standing up for America,” Bob McEllrath, the union’s president, said in a statement. “We’re supporting the troops and telling politicians in Washington that it’s time to end the war in Iraq.”

Americans are more willing to make sacrifices to stop the occupation than they are willing to make sacrifices to continue it.

Sorry to see Ellen go, but I'm sure Frank will do a good job.

Good luck in the future, Ellen. We certainly don't see eye to eye on everything, but I think you did some very important work for AA.

I'm also excited about Frank. I've always enjoyed his articles.

Wow Dave...kind of modest...eh?


Comment from: What

Yesterday, more than 25,000 dockworkers in 29 West Coast ports stayed off the job in order to protest the Iraq war, according to the International Longshore and Warehouse Union. “Longshore workers are standing down on the job and standing up for America,” Bob McEllrath, the union’s president, said in a statement. “We’re supporting the troops and telling politicians in Washington that it’s time to end the war in Iraq.”
Americans are more willing to make sacrifices to stop the occupation than they are willing to make sacrifices to continue it.

Union workers taking a day off? And you're impressed?

And you wonder why the NAFTA super highway is being forced upon us...

Doing the Freedom Walk is definitely a great way to end over thirteen years of service as president.

I was considering going to the '08 convention, but ultimately couldn't go. I would have liked to hear Ellen speak. Hopefully she'll speak at the '09 convention.

I'm new to the community, but as a marketing type, this is an awful announcement. The focus should be on the organization and the future with a polite note about the past. I'm sure Ellen did excellent work, but this release is a bit like Bill stumping for Hillary. It should be about where we're going, not where we've been.

Is Mr. Zindler not a candidate to be Ms. Johnson's permanent replacement?

vinny:

I'm new to the community, but as a marketing type, this is an awful announcement. The focus should be on the organization and the future with a polite note about the past. I'm sure Ellen did excellent work, but this release is a bit like Bill stumping for Hillary. It should be about where we're going, not where we've been.

I disagree. Ellen was an excellent president and was in that position for a long time, so it's perfectly appropriate to give an overview of her history with American Atheists.

I cast my vote for Dave Silverman to take over as the new official president. He would certainly be missed in his communications role, but he is EXCELLENT in that regard, (as well as obviously devoted to the atheist cause), and strong communication skills are a key (the key?) requirement to lead this organization, IMHO.

What do you think?

I'm glad to see Frank Zindler president pro temp and sorry to see Ellen Johnson go. Glad to know Ellen Johnson will still be on the Board of Directors. My thanks to Ellen Johnson and best wishes to Frank Zindler.

OT Alert

A senior adviser to John McCain says the Republican presidential candidate’s campaign is now talking with senior White House staff everyday.

President Bush and McCain, former GOP rivals, “have an excellent relationship,” Charlie Black said at a lunch hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.

Everyday. As I have said here before John "Keating Five" McCain's price for supporting the invasion of Iraq was the GOP nomination in 2008.

Whoopsy

deleted

davidmabus:
wtf are you talking about???

If I am not mistaken, you are very sick. Get some help.

Davidmabus is spamming the world with that crap. It has absolutely no value.

I hope the true story of Ellen's departure is forthcoming.

She was capable in ways I can't imagine any other Atheist individual could be in the position of President of American Atheists.

She is attractive, very bright, quick witted, pleasant, attractive, very intelligent, very well spoken, impeccably credentialed, caring, with a great sense of humor, attractive, dedicated and I can't imagine a more perfect fit for the job. And, did I mention attractive ?

Is the Board required to release a statement as to the reason(s) for their action ? Anyone know ?

Comment from: dhappleby [Member]
I cast my vote for Dave Silverman to take over as the new official president. He would certainly be missed in his communications role, but he is EXCELLENT in that regard, (as well as obviously devoted to the atheist cause), and strong communication skills are a key (the key?) requirement to lead this organization, IMHO.

I second the nomination. Dave would make an excellent president.
(don't kill me, Dave)

Ellen Johnson is one in a million. I was proud to be an American Atheist with her representing us in the media. She is smart, beautiful, well-spoken, quick on the uptake, stylish, empathic,and extremely intelligent. She is the image I want for women Atheists everywhere. Why can't she stay on as spokeswoman for AA?

This new troll David Mabus is actually one Dennis Markuze from Montreal, QB and is a bat shit crazy Nostradamus believer who spams atheist sites everday claiming that Randi owes hima million dollars for proving that the supernatural is real. The only way to deal with someone of this magnitude of mental delusion is to ignore him totally.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/05/the_recent_mabus_incursion.php

Dave...in all seriousness...

Would you please post Ellen's top 5 achievements since she became president of AA?

If I were to read between the lines, I'd say the board voted her out because of the declining membership and dues coming into AA...

I disagree. Ellen was an excellent president and was in that position for a long time, so it's perfectly appropriate to give an overview of her history with American Atheists.

Spinfusor, I respect your opinion on Ellen since as a newbie I have no basis to have one. But one of the things I hope to bring to the table is a view to improving our competitiveness in this marketplace of ideas in which we are greatly outnumbered in quantity (if not quality or sanity). I came across this post today on another blog. I think it does a much better job at expressing this point than I can. I've met Jeff a few times and I think he makes a very important point about marketing the "product".

Atheist Ethicist: E2.0: Jeff Hawkins: Entrepreneurial Atheism

To reiterate the point, a press release is for external consumption and should be forward looking. Featuring Ellen first is better suited to the internal messaging like newsletters.

-vinny

oops... Here's the link...

http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2008/05/e20-jeff-hawkins-entrepreneurial.html

@vinny:
But this is not a press release. Right at the beginning it says, "To members and Supporters of AMERICAN ATHEISTS."(original emphasis)

As a member, I would much rather read a personal notice from the board than a press release.

The blog post you linked to was interesting, but the author made a remark (after the post in a comment) that troubles me:

I think our movement needs a few entrepreneurs who are focused on winning rather than being right.

Use the following syntax to make a hyperlink:
<a href="URL">Title</a>

There are errors in this post (which, especially considering it's also on the front page of the AA website, should be fixed):
"on a new adventure"
"of our time. With all of this"
"can from one life, the elegant"
"as National Legal Director. The American Atheist"
"of membership will continue, as will our" (or ", and so will", but that would bring the "and" count to three)
"Thank you in advance"
Why is "supporters" capitalized (or, why isn't "members")?

Sorry, I forgot to put a / in the closing blockquote tag.

There I go making an ass out of myself again.
(Sorry, I forgot to put a / in the closing blockquote tag.)

I promise that this is the last time.

Comment from: phreedm

And you wonder why the NAFTA super highway is being forced upon us...

Actually, I've always wondered how anyone can believe that the NAFTA highway propaganda operation could be considered as being reality-based by a functioning human being. I guess now I know all it takes it a bit of that good ole pagan supersition...

If you were ever able to read through any lines, phreakshow, you'd realize that your opinions are absolutely worthless around here, and your condescending religious insanity about atheists is only good for amusement purposes. Oh - and that most of the people here think you're a pompous a$$ who runs away from arguments like a bedwetting coward when anyone asks you to, you know, provide some sort of proof for your wild a$$ innuendo and unfounded allegations.

If you could read between the lines after over two years of futilely peddling your sanctimonious occult nonsense here, that is...

Suck it, jeebus phreak!

Further to Spinfusor's comment:

The phrase for a non-permanent replacement is "pro tem" - not "pro temp". Please fix

cjn

Am I just being paranoid, or is it odd that the end of Ellen's tenure as president of AA came when she was out in the middle of nowhere (sorry AL and MS) on the freedom walk - an endeavor that the AA board of directors decided not to fund?

I'm not to happy with the board's decision about the walk. It may be something of a stunt, but it's a pretty good one. I've been thinking about whether or not to renew my membership this year and the walk had me convinced to re-up. Until I found out the board was against it, that is.

And apparently the board didn't bother to tell anybody but Ellen that she was on her own, because we were told on this blog that if we wanted to give money to help fund the walk we should just donate to AA. I did that and found out later that AA isn't funding the walk after all. I'm pretty ticked off about that.

I know I don't deserve a full explanation of Ellen's departure from the AA presidency. I'm not important, I'm not active in the movement, all I do is pay my membership dues every year. But I do want an explanation, I think it is in AA's best interest to provide one, and I'm probably done with AA if they don't.

Are you all kidding? Obviously Ellen was fired and we will probably never know why, really. I wonder how long she'll remain on the Board. It would be nice if the Board told us why she was so swiftly and unceremoniously dismissed but that is unlikely. A President Pro Tem is ok but Frank Zindler, while a wonderful man and dedicated atheist, is not the right person for this job. American Atheists needs a young, dynamic, new face.
I agree that Dave Silverman would be a terrific president but doubt he wants the job.

jeff_r:

Am I just being paranoid, or is it odd that the end of Ellen's tenure as president of AA came when she was out in the middle of nowhere (sorry AL and MS) on the freedom walk - an endeavor that the AA board of directors decided not to fund?

You're far from the only one who thinks that.

I know I don't deserve a full explanation of Ellen's departure from the AA presidency. I'm not important, I'm not active in the movement, all I do is pay my membership dues every year.

That qualifies you as deserving.

I'm probably done with AA if they don't.

As am I.

My blockquote ability is inadequate. As is this explanation:

In the spirit of obtaining all that she (and any other Atheist) can from one life the elegant, energetic and outspoken Ms. Johnson will now focus her passions on anew adventure.

I'd think that if they didn't force her out, they could have at least waited until she got back.

I can answer for all of the members of AA why Ellen is no longer President.
The truth is that she was fired by the Board of Directors while in the middle of the Freedom Walk. No warning was given, just that she was to either resign or she would be fired. There is no logical or good reason for this action. If anyone has any questions for Ellen you may email her at Elljhns8@aol.com. I dont think she is on the Board of Directors either.
As members of this organization, I would start asking a lot of questions of YOUR Board of Directors. Ellen decicated her life you all of you and brought this organization to where it is today, continually working on making it bigger and better for all.
This is the truth of the matter, please do not believe any other stories you may hear.

Folks,

Things here are in a state of flux -- please be patient with the news updates. You'll know when I know.

As of now, Ellen is still on the board and an active member at that.

Jeff-R I believe that was my mistake. Please contact me off-line with the details of your donation and I'll fix it.

To the Board of Directors of American Atheists,

This e-mail is from one of your members who takes his atheism very seriously and who also has left christianity (intentional lower case "c") and all other god-belief systems for many of the same reasons all of you most likely have.

That of a lack of ethics, a lack of truth, and a lack of personal accountability and responsibility for any wrong doing. It is with great sadness that I have to write this, as I am probably only one of a handful of members who are privy to the REAL TRUTH as to Ellen's "departure" as your board so carefully and craftily worded it on your website.

I am making a personal plea to all of you to not do to Ellen Johnson what you are planning to do.

Since I do not have a "personal god" to appeal too, I call upon the memory of Socrates and Plato and yes, of Madelyn Murray O'Hair herself..... ALL WHO STOOD FOR UNQUESTIONABLE TRUTH AND ETHICAL STANDARDS.

Yes, I have learned the truth from a very reputable source that Ellen Johnson did not resign her position with American Atheists and that she was not asked to "remain on the board" and "agreed to remain".

No, the TRUTH IS that Ellen Johnson was contacted via phone call from the Board on a "conference call" while she was completing a Freedom Walk FOR AMERICAN ATHEISTS and was unceremoniously FIRED from her position as President of the Organization.

I ASK THIS BOARD ON THE NAME AND ETHICS OF MADELYN MURRAY O'HAIR, SOCRATES, PLATO, AND......ROBERT INGERSOLL, THOMAS PAINE, CLARENCE DARROW, RICHARD DAWKINS AND THOMAS HUXLEY AS WELL:

WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO HURT ELLEN IN THIS MANNER?

WHY ARE YOU DOING WHAT IS UNETHICAL AND UNCONSCIONABLE?

Ellen was walking tirelessly on that Freedom Walk all the way from Chattanooga, Tennessee to Jackson, Mississippi on behalf of Atheist Bill Moore who was murdered before he could finish that walk.

Ellen was taking the stand that she has always done for all of Atheists. Again and again she has been the VISIBLE VOICE OF THE AMERICAN ATHEIST.

How can any of you in good conscience, call Ellen and FIRE HER over the telephone as she was being the VOICE OF YOU AND HELPING THE ATHEIST CAUSE??

Then you LIE TO THE MEMBERS OF AMERICAN ATHEISTS AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC AS WELL?
Ellen DID NOT resign. How DARE you tell lies!

YOU TELL ME JUST WHO YOU ARE GOING TO FIND TO REPLACE ELLEN JOHNSON THAT WILL HAVE THE WORK ETHIC THAT WOMAN HAS, AND WHO HAS INCREASED THE VISIBILITY AND RESPECT, YES, RESPECT FOR ATHEISTS AND AGNOSTICS ACROSS THIS NATION?

WHO IS GOING TO ORGANIZE ANOTHER GODLESS AMERICAN'S MARCH ON WASHINGTON?
WHO IS AS COMMITTED AS ELLEN TO APPEARING ON HUNDREDS OF TELEVISION NEWS BROADCASTS EACH AND EVERY YEAR??

I suppose you will now withdraw my membership in your organization only because I am standing for the truth. So be it. I would not renew anyway, knowing that the woman who sacrificed 30 years of her professional and even personal life for this organization was mistreated in the way you are mistreating her.

Madelyn Murray O'Hair would have plenty to say to all of you.

With the withdrawal of my membership in American Atheists, my sponsorship of your television show will also come to an end as well.

Think very carefully about what you are doing, because THIS FORMER MEMBER WILL NOT BE SILENT.

Very sincerely,
Jack Richter
American Atheist
PS: FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION: *YOU WOULD ALL BE VERY WISE TO ADD ELLEN TO YOUR
ATHEIST ALLIANCE INTERNATIONAL: STAFF IMMEDIATELY! I HAVE SEEN THIS ATHEIST
THE CENTER FOR INQUIRY: IN ACTION AND IN ACTIVIST MODE.
RICHARD DAWKINS FOUNDATION: SHE IS FEARLESS AND SHE IS SUPERB.

Dave

This is beginning to stink. Come clean now. You are risking my membership as well.

I want three things:

(1) To hear directly from Ellen if her departure was voluntary or not.

(2) If not then I want to know why she was booted.

(3) The board members names that booted her.

Board of Directors:

IF YOU PULL MY POST, THEN YOU WILL HAVE JUST CONFIRMED MY LOW REGARD FOR YOU.

I SUGGEST YOU LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS, BECAUSE PULLING IT AT THIS POINT WOULD BE LIKE PUTTING BIBLE READING BACK IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IF YOU INTENTIONALLY TAKE THE TRUTH OFF OF A BLOG IT'S THE SAME AS INTENTIONALLY PUTTING LIES INTO
SOCIETY.

Let's not get too carried away here. I think I posted the first comment that Ellen was fired (an absolute fact), just so you know where I'm coming from.
However, resigning your membership doesn't really help. It is more important than ever that we REMAIN members and keep the organization strong. Perhaps we want to consider voting in a new board? Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater!

Where can one get info on Ellen's march? There is nothing that I see on American Atheists website (not surprisingly!)?

Maizie, email Ellen for info right now, she is finishing up today and tomorrow with the walk, depending on how they do, they will be delivering the letter by tomorrow I believe.
Elljhns8@aol.com

Jack,

I understand your post, and no I never had the intention of deleting it. There are always going to be dissenters in this movement, and we need them.

To be sure: I love Ellen, both as a mentor and a friend. She resurrected this organization after the disappearance fo the O'Hairs, organized the GAMPAC and the March on Washington, and improved relations with other groups.

But I also know there are two sides to every issue. The Board didn't do this on a whim. Before you cancel a membership, I would consider whether that would help the cause.

Again, I don't know the details, and cannot confirm the accuracy of these posts. I can say her account is still active on the blog and so she can post any time she wants. I can also say that's I've left her a voice mail that she has yet to return. 4thetruth has posted her correct private email.

If I were to take a guess, I'd say she's finishing the walk before addressing this issue.

The future looks bright folks! Please stay tuned.

maize,
Updates, daily, and photos are at:

http://alabamaatheist.org/fw2k8/#UPDATES

Thanks, Atheistud, for the link!

David Silverman:

But I also know there are two sides to every issue. The Board didn't do this on a whim. Before you cancel a membership, I would consider whether that would help the cause.

At this point I'm not sure I even care why the members of the board did this. They staged a coup d'état when Ellen was over one thousand miles away, and subsequently lied to AA's members.

The fact that they lied signifies that AA has descended into politics. The board members care more about power than atheist activism. As such, AA is now a worthless organization.

Will leaving help the cause? If AA gets replaced by a more honest organization, absolutely. How can you expect us to give money and support to an organization that lies? How can you expect us to give money and support to an organization that cares more about power struggles than atheism?

I don't give a damn what the board says. It's members can no longer be trusted. Our support is better placed elsewhere.

Spinfusor,

You keep using the word "fact." Where is the evidence you're basing this on?

All I see is two new members who I've never seen before posting unsubstantiated claims.

Until someone comes up with some real evidence, I don't think we should be jumping to conclusions. It would be awfully nice if AA would post a rebuttal to these two new posters. If they keep silent for two long, then people (myself included) are apt to come to conclusions they won't like.

@alatham:
David said, "The Board didn't do this on a whim."

So the board voted Ellen out. The board lied about that in the post above.

alatham:

You keep using the word "fact."

I only used the word "fact" once. The only other person (aside from you) to use "fact" was maizie (also only once).

Spinfusor,

Sorry about the "fact" thing, I could have sworn I saw it more than once.

Anywho:

So the board voted Ellen out. The board lied about that in the post above.

I see nothing in the original post saying that she hadn't been voted out, just that she was leaving her post. It's vague wording, that's true, but I don't see how that constitutes a lie.

Furthermore, Dave has said he doesn't know any more than we do (effectively), so when he said that this wasn't on a whim, can we be sure he's not just saying that?

Dave, care to comment?

I agree that some clarification on this from the board should be forthcoming, else we may start smelling a rat. Was Ellen ousted for political reasons? If so, what were they? What direction does the board want to take that she was resisting? I would also like to hear Ellen's side of it.

AA members, please don't give up your membership over this or anything else. This too shall pass. Friction in the movement is part of the territory of activism. AA will survive this and prosper. It's important to keep our eyes on the prize, and not get distracted. There's still a lot of activism to do. Let's stay focused. :o)

Ellen was fired...it is a fact.

alatham:

Furthermore, Dave has said he doesn't know any more than we do (effectively), so when he said that this wasn't on a whim, can we be sure he's not just saying that?

But that's part of the problem. David, the "Communications Director," the ""public face" of American Atheists," doesn't know what's going on? The board didn't think it appropriate to inform their Communications Director?!?

I see nothing in the original post saying that she hadn't been voted out, just that she was leaving her post. It's vague wording, that's true, but I don't see how that constitutes a lie.

That, following the "over 13 years of outstanding service" remark and preceding "In the spirit of obtaining all that she . . . can from one life..." is meant to imply that she wasn't booted out and left of her own volition.

Spin and 4thethruth,

That, following the "over 13 years of outstanding service" remark and preceding "In the spirit of obtaining all that she . . . can from one life..." is meant to imply that she wasn't booted out and left of her own volition.

Only if you choose to interpret it that way.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that this is not being handled well, and I'm not denying any of the things that have been said. I would just like to see some proof. So far all I see is bad PR.

Dave

But I also know there are two sides to every issue. The Board didn't do this on a whim.

There are at least two sides to this issue. The problem is that we have not heard any of them, just Ellen's out.

It is a fact that Ellen was fired. She has said so herself but not much more. I'm sure Ellen is far more concerned about the march (and her presumably aching feet) right now. I hope she will respond when she has the opportunity.
You can ask her why she is no longer President.
Does anyone know how the organization of AA works? How does one get on the board, etc. Is there anywhere listed WHO is on the board? I don't see it on the website.
Yes, I am a new blogger on this site but have been an AA member for many years and attend all the conventions, including the one in MN. I am not particularly interested in blogging but was curious as to what people were saying about Ellen's ousting. Some of the early comments seemed so accepting of PR and uninformed that I just felt I had to comment. Just because I am new to the blog doesn't mean my facts are incorrect. There is absolutely no doubt that Ellen was fired and quite rudely at that! I'm sure Dave knows this to be true although he hasn't so definitively stated. There may be two, or more, sides to WHY she was fired, but fired she was.
Right, Dave????

I'm still waiting to hear from Ellen, as are you. She's my friend and I care about her, but I care about the movement more.

I need to give her time to finish her walk and give her "side". IN the mean time, all I can do is urge you to be patient and keep your eye on the movement.

Give us a break here, folks, all will be known.

I'm surprised and curious too, but will be patient. And pleased that this is being discussed here, on AA's official blog. Open dissent, never mind open discussion, was not tolerated in Madalyn's time. It is now, and Ellen can take much credit for that.

Josh Karpf (jkarpf@echonyc.com)
Founder, NYC Atheists (which wouldn't have gotten off the ground without AA's help)

If the BOD of AA would just tell us what happened and why, we wouldn't have to be patient.

I might add that the longer they wait, the less credible their story is going to be.

This is not a good start for the new regime.

Dave

"Give us a break here, folks, all will be known."

How long?

Dave

Who is on the board and how were they elected? I don't recall voting.

OK Here's how it works.

The President is chosen/elected by the Board of directors. The Board is self-electing, which means they can add and subtract as they see fit. This structure was a defense mechanism set up by Madelyn against infiltration from religionists who she feared would join and vote in their own board and president.

Current members of the board include:
Frank Zindler
Ann Zindler
Bart Meltzer
Conrad Goeringer
Edwin Kagan
Susan Harrington
Neil Cary
Dave Kong
Dick Hogan
Arlene Marie
(My apologies to any I missed)

The by-laws of the organization are available on request.

I'd hope we get clarification in the next several days. Your patience is appreciated.

Thanks, Dave, for the clarification of how members become Board members (although it seems rather self-serving) and the names of the members. Appreciate it.
Do you know what "quorum" it takes to remove a president? 50% + 1, 2/3 majority, etc.?

I hear they found rosary beads in her desk. She is also suspected of downloading tracts.

SPUDBOY

I hear they found rosary beads in her desk. She is also suspected of downloading tracts.

Heard from who?
If that's the case, then why the need to lie? Also, if they suspected her of not being an atheist, why put "In the spirit of obtaining all that she (and any other Atheist)" (emphasis mine) in the letter?

Re: Spudboy-
Assume that was a joke but you should have clarified.
Please let's not post ridiculous - can't even say rumors, it's so silly - comments and, please, let's not respond to them as if they are serious. If Spudboy is serious, I suggest one ignores.

For all we know, Ms. Johnson was caught stealing money from the organization and they posted that she resigned out of respect for her. For all the supposedly logical folks out there, we shouldn't have needed Dave to suggest that the board didn't do this on a whim. Of course they didn't.

Without facts, all we can do is sputter uselessly. That said, it also shouldn't have taken this long for folks to begin to suspect that AA wasn't as honest and forthright as all get out anyway. The stench of compromised integrity in the name of advancing its agenda is unmistakeable.

Cynic

The stench of compromised integrity in the name of advancing its agenda is unmistakeable.

Say what? Care to elaborate?

Cynic

For all we know, Ms. Johnson was caught stealing money from the organization and they posted that she resigned out of respect for her.

It's a bit hard to believe that Ellen would be offered a position on the Board of Directors if she had done anything like that, though I suppose the offer may be part of the misdirection.

Crap. I was hoping no one was going to make me defend that statement. ;-)

I dunno, really. Kind of a gut impression I get. AA feels more like a political party or labor union than an advocacy group like the ACLU. It's not as if I disagree with the general sentiment. But too often I hear officials of this organizations make statements that give me the feeling that a false argument is as good as a sound one when it comes to supporting an idea.

To me, I'd rather be wrong for the right reasons than right for the wrong ones. Obviously the organization as a whole can't be guilty of not embracing that ideal, but still, I get the feeling sometimes. Sorry to be vague and not to provide concrete examples.

Umm Just for the record.

Nobody has suggested Ellen was not a dedicated Atheist. The Rosary beads was a funny comment, but for the record, that's not true.

ALSO, nobody is accusing Ellen of stealing anything. Ellen has worked tirelessly for the cause for ridiculously-low pay. She's done great things.

Please don't make accusations or assumptions. Rumors spread!

Rumors spread!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:No_chat.jpg

To be clear, I most certainly not suggesting that she stole anything -- just suggesting that the board might be fully justified in their actions and we shouldn't condemn them without knowing all there is to know.

At best, the way this was handled shows the poor judgement of the board.

I just noticed that the letter above was changed. "Ellen Johnson is leaving her post as President" is now "Ellen Johnson is no longer President." Overdue honesty (and would it have killed the person making the change to fix the other errors?).

The old version is still on the front page.

From a 1998 Issue of American Atheist, the following list
goes to show what a trusted, highly capable individual was Ellen,
among a gathering of trusted and highly capable individuals.

The Boards of Directors
On Sunday, October 5, a joint meeting was held of the boards of directors of American Atheists, Inc., and its affiliated Atheist organizations. The health-related resignation of Arizona’s Patricia Wilkinson was accepted with regret by the boards of American Atheists, Inc., and United Secularists of America, Inc. The board vacancies left by Ms. Wilkinson remain to be filled. In accordance with the by-laws of the several corporations, the remaining officers and directors were reelected for three-year terms. The names of officers and directors of the several organizations are listed below.
CESAALA 
(Charles E. Steven's American Atheist Library and Archives)
Officers:
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey) President 
Chris Allen (Utah) Secretary 
Henry Schmuck (Michigan) Treasurer
Board of Directors:
Conrad Goeringer (New Jersey)
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey)
Dave Kong (California)
Henry Schmuck (Michigan)
Noel Scott (Washington, D.C.)
Margie Wait (Colorado)
Frank Zindler (Ohio)
United Secularists of America:
Officers:
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey) President
Chris Allen (Utah) Secretary
Henry Schmuck (Michigan) Treasurer
Board of Directors:
Richard Andrews (Utah)
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey)
Dave Kong (California)
Noel Scott (Washington, D.C.)
Margie Wait (Colorado)
American Atheists, Inc.
Officers:
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey) President
Chris Allen (Utah) Secretary
Henry Schmuck (Michigan) Treasurer
Board of Directors:
Chris Allen (Utah)
Conrad Goeringer (New Jersey)
Richard Hogan (Texas)
Dave Kong (California)
Henry Schmuck (Michigan)
Ann Zindler (Ohio)

Society of Separationists, Inc.
Officers:
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey) President
Chris Allen (Utah) Secretary
Henry Schmuck (Michigan) Treasurer
Board of Directors:
Chris Allen (Utah)
Richard Andrews (Utah)
Ron Barrier (New York)
Neal Cary (Virginia)
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey)
Henry Schmuck (Michigan)
Frank Zindler (Ohio)

American Atheist GHQ
Officers:
Ellen Johnson (New Jersey) President
Chris Allen (Utah) Secretary
Henry Schmuck (Michigan) Treasurer
Board of Directors:
Richard Andrews (Utah)
Ronald Barrier (New York)
Neal Cary (Virginia)
Conrad Goeringer (New Jersey)
Dave Kong (California)
Ann Zindler (Ohio)

Ken's latest (05/07/08) update through this morning is at:

http://alabamaatheist.org/fw2k8/#UPDATES

and, the hack Gov' hasn't the nuts to show up.

Just for contrast, look at how Trek Bicycles handled the end of their association with Greg Lemond recently. In their case they knew legal action was likely, but they decided to make everything public anyway.

On the day of the breakup they held a company meeting where the head of Trek explained the decision to the employees, and they posted the PowerPoint presentation from that meeting on their web site, along with a press release, actual legal documents, and some other stuff supporting their decision.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/company/media/

I sent Ellen Johnson an email saying simply, "FIGHT BACK."

She sent me the following response:

"Oh, the Board doesn't listen to me."

Forgive me, Ellen, for sharing this private communication with everybody but I think it's necessary for all of us to know that there was apparently no real communication between the Board and the president of AA. If they don't listen to the president OF AA, what makes anybody, including any dues-paying member, think they will listen to THEM? How do you spell
t-y=r-a-n-i-c-a-l?
Let's vote out the Board and vote Ellen back in.

P.S. How do you also spell m-i-s-o-g-y-n-y?

At the New York City Pope picket, some 75 people showed up to help NYCA demonstrate. Seven of them were women. (I counted.) That's less than 10 percent.

I am concerned about the low number of women attracted to atheist organizations. Ellen is a beacon of rational, sensible, intelligent, beautiful womanhood. She is the face I want to see representing atheism. I'm sorry, but AA's Board of Directors is predominantly male. (Two women,not counting Frank Zindler's wife, whom we might expect to vote with her husband) Shouldn't the board be at least 50 percent women? Even the medical and law schools today are 50 percent women. What is it about atheist organizations that keeps women away? This shoddy treatment of Ellen does not help.

character |?karikt?r| noun
the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual -

fifth column | is a group of people who clandestinely undermine a larger group to which it is expected to be loyal -

To: American Atheists Board of Directors

Through your collective lack of character, in the handling of your firing of Ellen Johnson, you’ve managed to make me ashamed of having been a member of American Atheists.

Through your collective lack of character, in this matter, you’ve gained a reputation for being unworthy of trust.

Through your collective lack of character, in this matter, you’ve done more to substantiate the claim of the religious that Atheists lack moral character than any of the faithful have ever been able to accomplish.

Which leads me to wonder if you are not, collectively a Fifth Column.

Good bye

atheistud@lycos.com

I am Gil Gaudia. My wife Jeanne and I have been editorial assistants for the past two years at American Atheists. In doing so, we have worked closely with Ellen Johnson whom we respect and admire greatly. We have also had telephone and email contact with a few of the board members, especially with regard to editing their manuscripts. We were not impressed with their interpersonal skills. I have also contributed several articles to the magazine. We have just concluded an hour long telephone conversation with Ellen.

We are extremely biased in her favor, because we found her to be hard-working, honest, courageous, competent and caring of us and appreciative of our volunteer contributions.

This board’s action, in our opinion, will almost certainly result in the end of the organization and publication as we know it. We say this because, from first-hand experience we are aware of the number of hours, the amount of coordination and the knowledge of the operation that are all required to successfully produce a monthly publication, and we have no evidence that any of the board members are willing and able to invest that degree of commitment. Indeed, we have some reason to believe that the opposite is true. To those members who propose hiring Dawkins, Hitchins, Harris and others for the presidency, first see if they’ll agree to work for 38K, or thereabouts, in addition to doing latrine duty in their spare time.

For the board of directors of the most well-known Atheist group in America to have taken such a suicidal action is incomprehensible, but whatever their reasons, unless the
members protest strongly and demand her reinstatement, (which she may not even want) it will only be a matter of time before we no longer have an organization to uphold the civil rights of Atheists.

As a contributor of many articles to this magazine, and as volunteers in editing other journal articles, spending many hours of our time in assisting Ellen in producing this publication, we are no longer interested in writing, editing or assisting in any way a magazine whose board has acted in such an irresponsible, unfair and self-destructive manner.

Gil and Jeanne R. Gaudia

Yay, Gil and Jeanne Gaudia!

I think this is a "palace revolt" by Misogynist Malcontents.

Dave, do you know if Ellen's dismissal is rescindable? Are you familiar with AA's bylaws?

I say, FIRE THE BOARD AND RE-INSTATE ELLEN JOHNSON.

Smart. Really? The organization that was FOUNDED by a woman and elected a second woman to be President? Misogyny? No.

Ellen was asked repeatedly to come to NY for the Pope protest. But she had just come from the Washington DC protest (which was larger and had far more press coverage) and she was too tired -- so I went, with my daughter.

Do you think the Board of directors decided to fire Ellen on a whim? Do you think this group of smart, experienced, and talented activists, many of whom PLACED Ellen on as president in the first place, WANTED this?

Or maybe, just maybe, there were major problems that could only be solved this way, and because of legal, moral, and privacy reasons the board chooses to keep it quiet, so it doesn't devolve into mudslinging? Hmm??? Which seems more logical??? Hmm???

Boards fire presidents when the so choose. They chose.

It's permanent. It also sucks. But it is what it is and we're moving on. At least I am.

Remember, it's about the cause -- not the person.