NoGodBlog.com

Uh, who what where?

What's the first thing I want to know? Why do we have a new leader?

I would love it if we could get softer toilet paper in the men's room.

If we were to be visited by space people...would we take them to our leader....

Not that anyone would listen to me, so for what it's worth...

Drop your opposition to school vouchers. It's unconscionable that a group of elitists would force children to stay in failing public schools. Education is the only path to true success and freedom.

Drop your opposition to the free flow of ideas and thoughts. Allow true freedom within the science classroom.

Use business, membership dues or fundraisers finance AA, instead of public tax money via the courts.

Recognize the real religion that is a threat to Western Civilization and act upon it. This is not to say one cannot disagree with religion in general.

Be politically neutral.

The American Atheist web site, it's like it is stuck in a xtian universe, i.e. Never Changing. About every four to six weeks do I go to the website because there isn't any new items posted.

Please explain, in truthful terms, why Ellen was fired, how you want the organization to change, where you see it going.
Please explain why you chose to fire Ellen in the midst of her Freedom March. This appears kinda cruel.
Please advise how the Board becomes the Board. Through what process are Board members elected/appointed,divined???
How does the President become the President? Are there terms of service or does one serve at the pleasure of the Board?
Thank you.

Constructive criticism intended, a monthly publication that alerts us to all kinds of church/state violations and science news. I was a member and thought the bimonthly magazine was so so. Honest feedback.

Don't feed the troll!

1. Why do we have a new leader?
2. Why were we told Ellen "left" if she was fired?
3. Exactly what is this "new direction" we're taking?
4. Why don't members have any input?

I like very much that the organization provides this blog.

I appreciate the magazine, but it contains little about the actual workings of the organization.

I don't like that my membership affords no voice in the decision making process of major matters such as this move with Ellen. Members could have been notified of any concerns the board had, with their solutions offered, and we could have been at least polled on our opinion of the matter.

That's what I can think of before I've finished my first cup of coffee.

Be tolerant of atheists with convservative political views.

While I disagree with Phreedm's religious views, his opinions regarding school choice, free thought are worth considering and abusing tax dollars are worth considering.

Regarding the web site: It's seldom updated. Most every day there are dozens of news items relating to atheists. I post these on my web site via RSS feed. Few see them, however, because the new site has yet to gain traction. Perhaps a volunteer could be found to manually post the most significant news stories each day.

I do not think that the American Atheist is a club, I do not care to have a voice in the runnig of the org. any more then I care to have a voice in the running of my Time and News week. American atheist is a gathering spot for non-thiests, with that in mind, the web site should be a daily news and information hot spot, members should be invited to write blogs and update members of national goings on. I would love to see an American atheist sponcerd Republican party and the same for the democrats in order to our movement into these parties with a backing. I also think the right thing to do is to get copies of The American Athiest Mag. into magazine racks in bookstores and supermarkets.

Seeker

Just took a look at your news stories. Any way you can make the font larger? It's hard to read that small.

Looking forward to reading your rebuttal of Lee Strobel's book. I'd heard it was tripe; can't recall who said so, but it's always being touted by apologists, so I'm glad you have a by-chapter rebut.

seeker

While I disagree with Phreedm's religious views, his opinions regarding school choice, free thought are worth considering and abusing tax dollars are worth considering.

While the subjects themselves are worth consideration, phreedm's opinions are not. At least not until he learns to conduct himself as someone who wants to converse, rather than as a flame baiter.

I want to know:
- Why the board fired Ellen.
- Why the board thought it was acceptable to fire Ellen when she was 1,000+ miles away.
- Why the board lied to AA's members about the firing.
- How the board expects anyone to trust it after doing the above.
- Why we should give money to a dishonest organization.
- Why we shouldn't go to another atheist organization.
- Why the freedom walk wasn't sponsored in some form.
- Why there's little to no transparency.
- Why the website's stuck back in 1997.
- Why text isn't checked for errors before it's posted to the front page.

Keep efficient, maybe via information-clearinghouse-style national campaigns, which AU does so well. D.C.-based ground events draw few participants and little news coverage. Local/regional events, such as at the New Jersey state capitol or in exurban Alabama, require much effort at the cost of broader projects.

Work more with other national groups. The D.C.-lobbying Secular Coalition for America has wide support from almost all the other national freethought groups, while GAMPAC was a joke. If AA still has national conventions (expensive, though appreciated by atheists nowhere near local groups), be flexible about the calendar so heretics don't have to choose between it and other conventions.

Working more with local groups is always a drain on the central office, and a frustration for the local groups. Each expects too much of the other. Yet to encourage grassroots growth, local groups need regular national promotion and validation. Such growth might then support national efforts. At this time, local activism may become even more important to the central office. Even small
one-person-does-everything affiliates, or committmentless Meetups, need more central promotion than a one-time listing on an old Web page. AA's mailing list should be used liberally, not conservatively, to advertise events.

Many atheists prefer print news/commentary to the online kind. It's cheaper to focus on online delivery -- and that medium helps draw in badly needed younger members -- but online media isn't friendly to much of the older demographic. The magazine was once a membership benefit, and could again be the most tangible one yet, if on a smaller, more manageable scale.

Stay focused on our core issues, keeping philosophically radical but politically centrist. Avoid the far right/left/libertarian fringes. The bigger our tent, the more who'll fit under it. We heretics will argue with each other about the fine points anyway.

AA has never offered its membership any electoral power, and need not -- people can bring their membership dollars elsewhere if they want to pay for the slow work of coordinating direct democracy -- but it could offer more information about operations, or the lack thereof.

Keep encouraging members to volunteer, especially if work can be done remotely. Too few people have been doing too much work. Encourage people who offer helpful ideas to back them up with resources so they can actually be implemented. Except me, sadly; my activist days are past.

As I've repeated, we will reveal details on Ellen's departure when we can. But tell me what you'd like to see American Atheists improve on! TELL FRANK!

Phreedm, No, No, We already do, the greatest threat IS Christianity by far, and we already are (don't need input from the new Prez to answer those)

See the previous announcement post comments for info on how the board works.

Charlie, all aliens are to be directed to Frank for the time being.

Ditto what others have said about AA coming clean regarding Ellen. If they don't do that by the end of this week then I don't care what happens to AA in the future. But assuming we get a credible explanation soon...

I agree with others about the web site.

Did I read somewhere that the AA library was being digitized? If not that might be worthwhile, especially if the public domain part of the collection could be made available on-line.

Try to use volunteer labor. Maybe volunteers could re-design and maintain the web site, or even do some of the day-to-day grunt work involved in running the organization.

Dave should grow a soul patch.

To be honest I never paid that much attention to what AA was doing in the past. As long as we had people like Ellen and Dave (and Ron Barrier before him) showing that atheists are (more or less) rational, intelligent, caring people, normal people, I was happy to maintain my membership. So I guess my greatest desire is that AA continue to represent atheists positively whenever given the opportunity.

I think AA should do some real soul searching. Look back at everything it's done in the last 10 years and try to evaluate whether or not it has done any good. Maybe stop trying to do things that other organizations do better. For example, do we really accomplish much with the few legal actions we take? Maybe AA should be less of an activist organization and more of a resource for information about atheism.

Whatever AA does, it should limit itself to what it can do well given its financial resources and the knowledge, talent and skills of its people. I think it's better to do less and do it well than to try to do too much and do it half-assed.

Dave

Can you elaborate on this "new direction" we're taking, or is that something we have to ask Frank? I sent an email to the "contact us" address on the AA website yesterday. No answer yet. Does Frank have an email listed somewhere that I missed?

First of all, you asked almost the exact same question, posted 12/30/07. 90 comments, probably 75 percent of which were off topic because of the trolls (sigh). Still, there were many good observations and suggestions at that time. Did anyone on the board look at them?

I was the entire office staff of a small 501(c)(3) organization (though with vastly more assets than American Atheists) for 20 years, so I have some small knowledge of these matters. I note from viewing what 990 reports are available without paying a fee that the board consisted of the exact same members from 2004 through 2006. The board of the Charles E. Stevens American Atheist Library & Archives consists of mainly the same people. The list of current members given in the other thread does show some new names, so that is a good sign. I am not privy to the by-laws of the organization, but it looks like there may not be term limits for directors. Term limits are an excellent idea, in order to get fresh ideas and perspectives.

On these 990 forms, for both American Atheists and the Stevens Library, Ellen Johnson is listed as President, with no compensation. Without more information to go on, I have to assume that she is either independently wealthy, or she also has a real job. It sounds to me that what American Atheists needs is a full-time paid Director and staff to actually get some work done. That would require more funding, but a savvy and engaged Director should be able to accomplish that.

The American Atheist website is indeed an embarrassment. Under What’s New, the most recent entry is dated 7/16/07. The most recent Action Alert is 12/26/07. It is apparent that no one is in charge of keeping it up to date. I seldom look at it, and find much more up-to-date information just reading this blog. Look at the Americans United website for a good model.

American Atheists Magazine is poorly edited, and is not a credit to the organization. Ellen Johnson is listed as editor. Sorry, but I’m not impressed.

I would like to see American Atheists focus on atheist issues – what a concept! With the limited assets and very limited staff, don’t waste time on abortion issues, gay issues, etc. There are many other organizations to deal with those concerns. All atheists are not going to agree on these other topics anyway.

GAMPAC seems to be totally stagnant and ineffective. What has it accomplished?

This is probably getting too long, so that’s it for now. Appreciate the chance to have some input, assuming that it will do any good.

Tarma,

Where did you find those documents? I'd like to take a look. Thanks.

Phreedm:

Drop your opposition to the free flow of ideas and thoughts. Allow true freedom within the science classroom.

I agree. I've been wanting a more open discussion on the Raelian Revolution in our biology classes. Goddamn narrow minded heathens.

Something tells me the "free flow of ideas and thoughts" that Phreedm is so keen on having in our science classes will come to a sudden halt once good ol' Vorilhon makes an entrance.

Free flow of ideas... just as long as it's exclusive to Christianity.

Does "free flow of ideas" also cover the Stork Hypothesis being introduced into Sex Education classes? After all, it is just as valid and supportable as intelligent design.

Tarma,
The last time I looked, when sideshow was bitching about AA's books, I found that Ellen was making $38k in 2005? maybe 2004?.

I'd like to see AA abandon peripheral details like ID/school vouchers/etc, and just focus on the atheism. We have the NCSE & ACLU to fight those battles.

The Smalkowski (sp?) deal was good. The Mt Soledad cross was good. More of that.

Seeker

While I disagree with Phreedm's religious views, his opinions regarding school choice, free thought are worth considering and abusing tax dollars are worth considering.

This is about as "free" a forum as you will ever find. What the Phreek wants is free access not free thought.

Abuse of tax dollars? Don't make me laugh and cry simultaneously!

Be tolerant of atheists with convservative political views.

Defend your views. If you don't like the passion that others display in the defense of theirs then may I suggest another planet. If you want others to be more tolerant then refrain from posting assinine drivle like your 10 commandments.

Answers to the questions regarding the change of presidency are a must. Sorry, Dave... you've been repeating that you'll reveal the details as soon as you can, I know. But my continued membership may depend on those details, and the long silence isn't looking too good.

That said, I recall someone mentioning volunteer work in the posts above. As an artist and 3D animator, I would be happy to volunteer some of my time and effort to help give the website a much needed facelift.

jeff_r,

Tarma,

Where did you find those documents? I'd like to take a look. Thanks.

If you go to guidestar.org, you can find 990s for nonprofit organizations. You have to register on the site, but you can get a lot of info for free, including viewing the 990s as pdf files.

mxracer,

Tarma,
The last time I looked, when sideshow was bitching about AA's books, I found that Ellen was making $38k in 2005? maybe 2004?.

I'm just going by what I saw on the form 990s online, and they said "no compensation." That does seem strange, so maybe I am missing something. However, if it is only $38k, that is ridiculously low, IMO. Though, sometimes you get what you pay for. Maybe if the board authorized a decent salary they could hire someone who could get more done.

I agree with Tarma that the American Atheists magazine needs much more effort put into it: the articles need expert editing and including things like 5-year-old Onion articles (humorous as they may be) is minor-league.

Dave's comment about revealing details "when we can" may indicate that there are legal matters (or perhaps threats of legal matters) that are being dealt with, as in "we cannot comment until the investigation is complete" - I doubt the details are as salacious as a "Law & Order" episode but imaginations - even those imaginations of rational atheists - can run wild.

cjn

Jie

As an artist and 3D animator, I would be happy to volunteer some of my time and effort to help give the website a much needed facelift.

One of the things that I like about this blog's layout is that its pages load quickly even when a page contains 200+ comments. Would your ideas for a face-lift slow things down? Thanks for volunteering your time and expertise.

Drchris

including things like 5-year-old Onion articles (humorous as they may be) is minor-league.

Agreed. I like my Onion fresh. The editing of the mag has been less than acceptable at times.

Defend your views. If you don't like the passion that others display in the defense of theirs then may I suggest another planet. If you want others to be more tolerant then refrain from posting assinine drivle like your 10 commandments.

What - Your boorish beligerence is assine drivle. I don't know what planet you came from, but perhaps you take your own advice while here on planet earth and defend your views rather than spouting an endless thread of noxious flames.

OT, but a question of civil rights that should be addressed. A teacher fired for refusing to sign a loyalty oath.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-oath2-2008may02,0,6280956.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel

"But the day before class was scheduled to begin, her appointment as a lecturer abruptly ended over just the kind of issue that might have figured in her course. She lost the job because she did not sign a loyalty oath swearing to "defend" the U.S. and California constitutions "against all enemies, foreign and domestic."

The loyalty oath was added to the state Constitution by voters in 1952 to root out communists in public jobs. Now, 16 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, its main effect is to weed out religious believers, particularly Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses.

As a Quaker from Pennsylvania and a lifelong pacifist, Gonaver objected to the California oath as an infringement of her rights of free speech and religious freedom. She offered to sign the pledge if she could attach a brief statement expressing her views, a practice allowed by other state institutions. But Cal State Fullerton rejected her statement and insisted that she sign the oath if she wanted the job."

It's possible Ms Johnson doesn't want to satisfy our curiosities as to why she left.

I find these hesctoring demands to know why more than a bit childish.

Ernesto

I gave you my sincere apology and apparently you are not big enough to accept it.

but perhaps you take your own advice while here on planet earth and defend your views

Well now, I have never been accused of not defending my views. Apparently you think Seeker's 10 commandments was an accurate reflection of the views of atheists. As many here have stated, they are not. You are wrong. Can YOU admit that?

Jesus-Ernesto

I think what does defend his views. And while I find him strongly opinionated, I don't find him offensive. He has certainly never offended me. He uses strong language in response to weak arguments. The post by Seeker involving the atheist ten commandments was something we would have expected from phreedm, not from another atheist who wasn't being facetious.

Why don't you either accept or reject his apology, and leave matters between him and others where they belong. If others have issues, they can settle them separately. We are all adults here, after all.

I think Jie is offering to help redesign the greater atheists.org Web site, not this blog.

The magazine editor before Ellen Johnson was (drum roll) . . . Frank Zindler, with his also hardworking wife Ann! Before now, they already had their hands overloaded with other AA responsibilities. Can "more effort" to develop the magazine come from him again? Or from the other few, committed, already overloaded AA activist leaders?

The magazine is just one area where new blood can improve an AA asset. Who has the dedication, creativity, accuracy, and timeliness needed month after month after month, often without reward? And who wants to donate that?

New resources aren't going to come from "on high," as the religious might say. If members want improvement in AA, they may have to help make it happen.

I'm a lapsed AA member who will be rejoining because of this "transition." It was exciting when AA moved its HQ close to me around 1999, and I helped out for next couple of years, first in person and then remotely. But since then I saw more organizational stagnation than achievement, and gave up on it.

The next few months will be rough for us all. But this looks like a fresh and positive step forward, after years of standing still.

Josh

I'm a lapsed AA member who will be rejoining because of this "transition."

Interesting. What, specifically, is occurring now that has compelled you to reconsider?

What: my expertise is limited to the artwork; things such as logos, banners, illustrations, layout design, and animation... my web construction/coding skills are sadly out of date, (we'd still need other volunteers for that aspect) but regarding your question, I think a few well-placed images shouldn't tax most systems too much.

What: Josh is correct. I was referring to the Atheists.org website. I believe the Blog does it's job fine just the way it is. :)

What - Your boorish beligerence is assine drivle. I don't know what planet you came from, but perhaps you take your own advice while here on planet earth and defend your views rather than spouting an endless thread of noxious flames.

Ignore him.

He'll flame every post I make from this point. Eventually regular readers of this blog will catch on.

Karen,

Any way you can make the font larger?

Done.

AA has accomplished a lot of great things since the murder-kidnapping of Madalyn and her family. Ellen can take credit for most of that. AA regained and even improved its public-speaking role for atheism. It began working with other, like-minded groups after years of a bunker mentality. It rescued its property from oblivion in Austin, relocating to a kinder neighborhood where it didn't have to fight just to get the mail out. It refined and republished its books.

But I've also seen too much AA resistance to change, too many missed opportunities for growth, too much floundering. Maybe that's been due in part to a lack of funds, or to our notoriously hard-to-organize, non-joiner demographic. Yet almost all the other major freethought groups have grown more than AA has in the last several years.

Change is good, and after working hard in atheist organizing for some of that, and then waiting several years to see more of it, this is the first sign I've seen of major change in AA. I'm positive about it.

Seeker:

You state on your website:

Pete Seeker is a 55-year old (in 2008) former fundamentalist Baptist pastor.

Were you formally educated in Theology or Divinity? If so, may I ask where?

jeff_r,

Whatever AA does, it should limit itself to what it can do well given its financial resources and the knowledge, talent and skills of its people. I think it's better to do less and do it well than to try to do too much and do it half-assed.

Very well said!

I just never have gotten the impression that American Atheists is actually accomplishing a great deal, especially compared to organizations such as Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and the Freedom from Religion Foundation. Perhaps it is partly a matter of perception, because the AA website and magazine are both so dismal and not at all timely. Perhaps AA needs to have less on its plate if it doesn't have the manpower and/or funding to do more.

One thing for sure - to me, this blog is the most positive, useful, and dynamic feature of American Atheists.

Seeker

Ahhh! That's so much easier on my eyes! Thanks!

I agree largely with Josh (far above) and Tarma (just above).

I blog for the NYC Atheists and I feel that it shouldn't really matter much who runs AA. The point is, there are plenty of "agenda items," and I'd assume whoever ultimately takes over will be on the correct side of things.

Maybe AA should take a nod from Americans United and FFRF and try to be more politically effective. I've got a few creative ideas, and maybe AA and NYC Atheists should do more "cross-pollination," like our recent collective effort at protesting the pope (although NYCA really did the heavy lifting on that one, it seems...)

Michael from http://nyc-atheists.org/blog/

jcc: Pete Seeker is a 55-year old (in 2008) former fundamentalist Baptist pastor.

Liberty University.

Sorry, but to retain anonymity I don't care to reveal many details. Yet.

At some point I may have to come out of the proverbial closet. (Imagine the hey-day What and Phreedm will have when they discover who I REALLY am.)

BTW, what is it about this blog that keeps drawing me back? My mind keeps asking, "Geeze, I wonder who posted what?"

Jie

What: Josh is correct. I was referring to the Atheists.org website. I believe the Blog does it's job fine just the way it is. :)

Thanks for the clarification. I think an artful and dignified revamp of the .org pages would be fantastic.

That said, I recall someone mentioning volunteer work in the posts above. As an artist and 3D animator, I would be happy to volunteer some of my time and effort to help give the website a much needed facelift.

Would you mind posting links to some of your work?

If not, understood. Just curious.

Seeker

Imagine the hey-day What and Phreedm will have when they discover who I REALLY am.

Unless you have been misrepresenting yourself in your closeted life why would I care who you "really" are?

Unless you have been misrepresenting yourself in your closeted life why would I care who you "really" are?

Because you hate me.

Sniff.

Seeker:
http://www.ggstudio.org

Look under "Julio's Work". That's me.

Seeker

Liberty U? Oh, dear.

You definitely have opted for the road less traveled now, haven't you?

And why do you keep coming back here?

Because I'm here, of course! ;-)

Karen,

Keep in mind I'm 55 years old. That puts me at Liberty back before it was Liberty University.

Originally it was Lynchburg Baptist College (when I showed up on campus.) Lynchburg College was (almost) across the street. Dr. Falwell decided to change the name to Liberty Baptist College. By the time the Liberty University moniker was adopted, I was long gone.

Jie,

Thanks! I'll have a look.

Jie,

Absolutely phenomenal!

Why not add the url to your profile?

I have always considered joining AA, however I have always hesitated.

As many have mentioned, the web design is not up to date, but what I find more troublesome, is the ads.

Does there really need to be 2 of these on the homepage?

"the atheist's riddle
so simple, any child can understand so complex, no atheist can solve"

Seeker

Because you hate me.

There, there honey. Have a good cry. You'll get over it.

Jie-
You freakin' rock!
Great work, man.

I'm a fellow artist (way different than you), and I can tell you have a solid grasp of light (which is very difficult).

Here's a suggestion for the blog. How about writing some code that will tell us when posters are using sock puppets.

Comment from: alexatheist

After all, it is just as valid and supportable as intelligent design.

So Alex...you claim to believe in other life forms in the galaxy.

I'm sure you'd listen to theories of superior life forms seeding our planet...

Now...wouldn't that be ID?

Hear, hear! Danny 419. The website is too static.

Naughtyniko

Captain

the atheist's riddle
so simple, any child can understand so complex, no atheist can solve

Here's the riddle:

The Hokey Pokey: Is it really what it's all about?

I'm sure you'd listen to theories of superior life forms seeding our planet...

Sure I'd listen to those hypotheses but unless you present some compelling evidence that aliens created life on earth the hypothesis is rubbish just like ID is. It's a huge leap to go from believing that life has evolved outside of our own planet to declaring that these hypothetical aliens engineered life here. You just don't get it do you, mate? It must be nice to not to have to think very hard.

Josh

But I've also seen too much AA resistance to change, too many missed opportunities for growth, too much floundering.

Would you give some examples.

Yet almost all the other major freethought groups have grown more than AA has in the last several years.

Could you provide some numbers?

Jie, could you do a quick, draft rendition of Ellen Johnson or Madalyn O'Hair a la your work at:

http://ggstudio.org/db2/00144/ggstudio.org/_uimages/Kappa.jpg

That would sure show a "new direction" for American Atheists . . .

Seeker:

Liberty University.

Sorry, but to retain anonymity I don't care to reveal many details. Yet.

Thanks for that much. Will you divulge what degree(s) you have?

Thanks for that much. Will you divulge what degree(s) you have?

I assumed that would be the next question and planned the following response:

(Ahem)

"Well, I would say I had a PhD in Theology but it wouldn't be true.

"If I answered that it would be followed by another question infinitum.

"However, if anyone cares to pry (must be REALLY bored) consider there were only about 1,600 students at Liberty at that time. Considering about half were male, you now have it narrowed down to 800."

Sorry. I think I'll draw the line on prying and let phreedm take it from here.

Does a degree from liberty university count for anything? other than a good laugh?

making the bylaws available for view would be nice.i think that AA should focus on educating a targeted pop. people that actually vote.this is actually a group intel can be gathered on to put together a educational program for.

alexatheist,

Sarcasm aside, about 87 percent of Liberty law grads passed the bar exam. I think the national average is between 65 and 70 percent; 72 percent in Virginia, July 2007.

You may not like what they believe, but don't under estimate their influence.

There were 50 law grads in 2007, the first class.

alex
i am no fan of falwell but there is no reason to knock the kids of liberty.they are at least trying to do something positive with their lives.who knows with a better understanding of the bible it may make it easier for them to accept atheism.

Please revise your definition of atheism. I think it's strange to call it a "doctrine". Why do you capitalize "atheist"? Nobody capitalizes "theist".

Alex

The question should be does being a former fundamentalist Baptist pastor indicate that you are anything but slow-to-learn or somebody with a long history as a faker.

Seriously, wouldn't a degree from liberty university be a hindrance in getting a job unless it's with an overtly religious organisation? Even a lot of xians think jerry falwell was nuts.

Obama wins NC by landslide! In Indiana the media is presently putting Clinton ahead of Obama by two percent with 91% of precincts counted. But a county by county look shows that Obama could easily grab a huge chunk of the remaining 9% and decisively put an end to this race.

Thanks guys for the great suggestions!

Yes, I read them all, and I will funnel most of them (not Phreedm's) to the board.

I talked to Frank at length. Yes, the reason we are being so quiet is protective in nature. We don't want to say anything wrong, and we need to make sure everything we say is Kosher (pun intended). All will be revealed in due time, but I can't tell you how long that is because multiple parties need to chime in.

In the mean time Frank has the daunting task of suddenly being president of AA. I will be releasing information on AA's new direction on this blog as it solidifies.

I'll be at the center tomorrow most of the day. Will advise.

Thanks Dave

Oh and CBS has projected Clinton as the Indiana winner. But the fat lady is still singing.

I know Hillary has put on a few pounds over the years, but I wouldn't call her fat... ;-)

I think he was talking about McCain.

Can one really sing the blues while wearing a pantsuit?

Hillary

It's time to call it quits.

I would like to see American Atheists join the Secular Coalition for America. They seem to be one of the few freethought organizations who has not done so.

Comment from: David Silverman

Yes, I read them all, and I will funnel most of them (not Phreedm's) to the board.

Hey Dave...it's ok to state this in public. You and I both know you'll be discussing some of my ideas... :)

I talked to Frank at length. Yes, the reason we are being so quiet is protective in nature.

In other words...we can't tell you out of fear of being sued...

Bottom line...I'll make a prediction. Nothing will change...

Sorry Karen...was that inflammatory?

Say "What"...

Can you say 1972?

Fear the Osama/bama. You think Bush ran amok with government spending? Wait until all the kickbacks start with nationalised health care.

mxracer652
you are so right.furthermore the federal constitution leaves this area to the states.i say to What and other likeminded people build your public health service at the state level.

If I could give anyone advice, it would be this- "and this too shall pass."
I think some positive things will come out of this for all parties.
This organization needs a kick in the ass to do something that will inspire it's members, and I also think Ellen needed a kick in the ass to make some personal changes.
I like Ellen very much, but she does not have that "certain something" to move this organization forward. This organization desperately needs someone like Christopher Hitchins to lead it, someone that has his ideas and speaking ability. Ellen is a wonderful person, but through no fault of her own, does not have the "oomph" to motivate people to get off their Atheist asses and do something.
We need an Atheist "JFK" or "MLK" to inspire and motivate.

I think we need to do less fighting over things like crosses and nativity scenes on public lands and do more to publicize the persecution of atheists (especially younger atheists) at the hands of Christians. Fighting over crosses emboldens the enemy and provides them with ammunition to further stereotype us to people on the fence, whereas showing the enemy for the judgmental hypocrites that they are in the press helps us.

I for one am glad Ellen is gone. I thought she represented atheists terribly whenever she was on TV.

I also don't think we need someone like Hitchens, who comes off as a jerk and couldn't even beat Al Sharpton in debate. We need someone like Dawkins, because he's eloquent, charismatic, and funny.

What,

The question should be does being a former fundamentalist Baptist pastor indicate that you are anything but slow-to-learn or somebody with a long history as a faker.

It certainly can indicate something other than those two traits. Indoctrination is a powerful drug, I wouldn't discount it out of hand. Seeker's status as a former fundamentalist Baptist is strong evidence for the power of indoctrination if that's the reason he became a preacher.

Until he states otherwise, I think that's the simplest and most likely explanation.

My advice is, focus on picking apart his arguments, that's what you're good at. Calling him a faker all the time comes across as ego-stroking and insulting for no useful purpose that I can perceive.

Alatham

My advice is, focus on picking apart his arguments, that's what you're good at. Calling him a faker all the time comes across as ego-stroking and insulting for no useful purpose that I can perceive.

I always enjoy reading your posts and for good reason - your clarity of thought.

What,

Thank you. I enjoy reading yours as well, but not when they're more inflaming than enlightening.

Alatham

We simply disagree on how to handle Seeker's posts.

Seeker

If you can't stand the heat don't walk into the kitchen and with a flame thrower (your ten commandments).

Ernesto

I hope you accept my apologies. I obviously mistook you for another poster.

As far as the site not being updated often, it looks like this organization has the same problem a lot of organizations have... not enough time in the day and it's not easy enough to update the site.

For what it's worth, I'd suggest you look at an Expression Engine/Wordpress/Joomla or Drupal content management system. There's a number of things that can automate dynamic content, especially to the home page, which should act as a portal. Imagine on the home page where it picks up on the most recent topics on this blog and draws users to it from the home page of the atheist site. You may also consider RSS readers to dynamically display related content.

If you were to designate one page for a person in your organization to update and have that content dynamically drawn to the home page and other pages and you have 4 or 5 people doing that, then you get a lot of dynamic content that is simple for people to keep up to date. We've found that if you give a person with not a lot of time just one page to update... their page... it actually happens.

You should also consider community building for the site. You could do profiles of every day atheists and the great things they're doing. I know that DVan has some great artwork. Others of you have talents and interesting ideas that could be highlighted. The goal is to show that atheists are doing wonderful and positive things. You could also highlight and help organize other atheist organizations throughout the country. Are there atheist charities? If there are, they should certainly be on the site and highlighted in some way.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry, I eat, drink and breath this stuff all day.

Now that all our laundery has been aired out, I think it is time we thank Ellen for what she has done, get behind Frank to guide our future and cease this internal bickering ( it only feeds fuel for our brethen theists ).

and damn those heathen theist.....especially phreedm ;\....

Thank You Ellen

I guess I have one more thing before I call it quits.

The participants on this blog are only a very tiny portion of the AA membership. If the AA Board Of Directors really wants some direction from its members, it should survey the entire membership by mail. They could do a separate mailing or as an insert in the next edition of the magazine.

I think this would be well worth the expense.

I suppose the board has already thought of this, but you never know.

Noel

Now that all our laundery has been aired out,

But the laundry has not been aired. We still do not know the boards reasons for giving Ellen the axe and we have not heard from Ellen. In fact we don't know much more now than we did when this "transition" was announced.

I have been a member for three years. The lack of any information regarding the internal finances and workings of the organization bothered me. Last December, I donated several hundred dollars on-line and didn't receive a receipt on-line that indicated that I had donated. I didn't receive a letter from the organization as required by the IRS to prove I had donated, much less a thank you letter. I won't donate again until I know how my money is being used and until I can get a proper receipt.

I appreciate Ms Johnson's efforts. Running any non-profit is hard work and sometimes thankless. However, I didn't feel she did a particularly good job representing atheist viewpoints on TV the few times that I saw her. I agree with previous comments that the website and magazine could be improved.

Personally, I would like to see a more proactive organization that reaches out more and lets people know their doubts about god are justified and offers them support. I would also like the organization to organize public service events to show the world that atheists aren't just negative, uncaring people. How about requesting some "faith based initiative" public funding for this?

Seeker is the most interesting poster in the entire blogosphere.

Seeker

Are your "10 commandments" part of what you call your "objective realism" or part of your Stockholm Syndrome?

reason

i say to What and other likeminded people build your public health service at the state level.

I think you are confusing some terminology which makes it difficult to understand precisely what you are saying. We already have a national Public Health Service. So you must be talking about something else.
Please clarify.

character |?karikt?r| noun
the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual -

fifth column | is a group of people who clandestinely undermine a larger group to which it is expected to be loyal -

To: American Atheists Board of Directors

Through your collective lack of character, in the handling of your firing of Ellen Johnson, you’ve managed to make me ashamed of having been a member of American Atheists.

Through your collective lack of character, in this matter, you’ve gained a reputation for being unworthy of trust.

Through your collective lack of character, in this matter, you’ve done more to substantiate the claim of the religious that Atheists lack moral character than any of the faithful have ever been able to accomplish.

Which leads me to wonder if you are not, collectively a Fifth Column.

Good bye

atheistud@lycos.com

I am Gil Gaudia. My wife Jeanne and I have been editorial assistants for the past two years at American Atheists. In doing so, we have worked closely with Ellen Johnson whom we respect and admire greatly. We have also had telephone and email contact with a few of the board members, especially with regard to editing their manuscripts. We were not impressed with their interpersonal skills. I have also contributed several articles to the magazine. We have just concluded an hour long telephone conversation with Ellen.

We are extremely biased in her favor, because we found her to be hard-working, honest, courageous, competent and caring of us and appreciative of our volunteer contributions.

This board’s action, in our opinion, will almost certainly result in the end of the organization and publication as we know it. We say this because, from first-hand experience we are aware of the number of hours, the amount of coordination and the knowledge of the operation that are all required to successfully produce a monthly publication, and we have no evidence that any of the board members are willing and able to invest that degree of commitment. Indeed, we have some reason to believe that the opposite is true. To those members who propose hiring Dawkins, Hitchins, Harris and others for the presidency, first see if they’ll agree to work for 38K, or thereabouts, in addition to doing latrine duty in their spare time.

For the board of directors of the most well-known Atheist group in America to have taken such a suicidal action is incomprehensible, but whatever their reasons, unless the
members protest strongly and demand her reinstatement, (which she may not even want) it will only be a matter of time before we no longer have an organization to uphold the civil rights of Atheists.

As a contributor of many articles to this magazine, and as volunteers in editing other journal articles, spending many hours of our time in assisting Ellen in producing this publication, we are no longer interested in writing, editing or assisting in any way a magazine whose board has acted in such an irresponsible, unfair and self-destructive manner.

Gil and Jeanne R. Gaudia

Spanders,

I know that DVan has some great artwork.

Thanks, Spanders!