NoGodBlog.com

Jesse Helms died today. Good riddance. I would have preferred that he die as Barak Obama is sworn in.

"what...do I know"...

So much for compassion...

Don't hold your breath about your messiah...

He's changing his views so rapidly these days, he's going to lose the support of the splinter groups that got him the nomination...

How did "compassion" get brought up in a discussion about Jesse Helms?

Atheist is not upper case when it's not the first word of a sentence.

Oh, and Phreedm doesn't usually make much sense.

One wonders why Phreeky would even bother flapping his trap given the unprecedented damage done by BushCo and his vile religious right to the USA. Traitors like Phreeky will figuratively and literally swing from the gallows.

I was literally dancing with joy when I heard that NCs jesse helms died today. The most virulently homophobic bastard in American politics single handedly did more to make my life, and the life of all gay Americans, unneccessarily more difficult. I hope he died in pain and fear.

I will miss Sen Helms...

But it will be a good miss.

What
obama will spend his term trying to get relected what does it take to make you see he is just another phoney politician.what has he done as senator besides run for president.

Yeah, I'll miss him too in an odd way. Kinda like how I'd miss the Phreek if he ever stopped posting on this blog:

"The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights." - Jesse Helms

oh, and something I found on wikipedia:

When confronted with evidence that D'Aubuisson ran death squads that systematically murdered civilians, he [Helms] replied that "[a]ll I know, is that D'Aubuisson is a free enterprise man and deeply religious."

3E8
was helms president no he was not nor head of cia.newsflash it is not the white mans fault that the natives like to rape,kill and mistreat each other.they were treating their people like shit long before helms was born.

As far as Jesse Helm's death I think a few bible verses are appropriate:

Pro 10:7 -- "The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot."

Pro 10:11 -- "The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked."

Pro 10:20 -- "The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked is little worth."

Pro 10:25 -- "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation."

Pro 11:7 -- "When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth."

Pro 11:10 -- When it goeth well with the righteous, the city rejoiceth: and when the wicked perish, there is shouting."

I think the last verse is the best one. Who hasn't seen The Wizard of Oz and rejoiced along with the munchkins as they sang "Ding Dong the Wicked Witch is Dead?"

I think the point I made from my wikipedia reference was that it seems that folks 'get off the hook' way too easily for committing atrocities... so long as they are 'deeply religious'

3E8
i understand i'm just not shocked at helms worldview this was drilled into his head from day one.

I wonder if in the back of that closet could be found a pile of white sheets with eye holes cut out. Jesse hated more than he loved, good riddence.
If you go to writeinbush.com you will see just some of the most entertaining lines you could hope for. George Carlin did return a few days late. I don't know if atheists or christians are doing this site but I love it. One line goes, "why stop at Bush, write in Reagan". Well why should right wingers stop at Reagan, they should write in Jesse Helms.
VegeBrain I must have missed those passages during bible study. Pondering those eloquent passages will sooth my sleep tonight no doubt. I will probably dream of Jesse and Hitler sharing manna in heben.

reason

You'll be sober in the morning ... I think.

Bush was heckled relentlessly today at his 4th of July speech. I would love to shake the hand of everyone of those hecklers. Maybe someday ... for now I will simply send Code Pink 200 dollars.

When I was in Berkeley a few months ago I took a little walk to the Code Pink Headquarters (actually in Albany), walked to the front door, and handed the women that answered 100 bucks. She said thanks, I smiled and was on my way. It felt great and I have certainly got my moneys worth.

Comment from: Mark Farris

I wonder if in the back of that closet could be found a pile of white sheets with eye holes cut out.

No...that would be Robert Byrd of West Virginia.

Reason...

All of the Obama supporters are choosing to remain blind...

He's flipped on everything that got him the nomination...(proving your point)

I can't imagine who in their right mind would offer such a powerful position to someone who had only been in Washington for 172 days before running for president, and since then as missed 132 votes.

No one can point to a single accomplishment...and yet they swoon on his every word...

How about you..."What do I know"?

Give us a single MAJOR accomplishment the "messiah" can get full credit for...

He bested Hillary Clinton in a fair fight. How's that?

Phreeky voted for Bush in 2000 who was not in Washington at all. What a dolt!

As I figured...you can't.

phreedm
i agree there is willful blindness here.at the same time i don't know if a good conservative can vote for mccain-open border,keating 5 scandal womanizer.a good look should be taken at baldwin for a protest vote.republicans need to learn their fate depends on religious an secular conservatives not neo con frauds.

Phreedm, what do you think? How have I been doing. I mean I have been you, you to an extreme. How effective do you think you are, did I get under your skin? You haven't even read the bible and you want to act like a keeper of the wisdom. You don't have a grasp of macro economics as you regurgitate the garbage you force feed yourself. You barge into the room and speak much about nothing. I suspect you don't have many if any friends in your little world so you feel anonymously important here. An atheist would not barge into a church just to disrupt feelgood sessions. That would be low class. Are you mentally ill?

Obama flips where the facts flop. McCain was born a flop!

BushCo has been in Washington almost eight years and what have they accomplished. Sadly we know.

John McCain's major accomplishment - pedaling influence for uber-rich investment bankers trying to escape the eyes of the law.

Vote John "Keating Five" McCain. More Wars! Less Jobs!

While I'm not really interested in trading barbs, I like to take these opportunities to clarify my thoughts. Politicians work in concert with each other to accomplish goals. They do not work all by themselves to get full credit. Now Phreedm, I know that you support president Bush, so let's compare and contrast the candidates prior to running for president:

George W. Bush:
Education -
The all boys school Phillips Academy in MA
Head Cheerleader
Yale University, degree in History
Average Student (self admitted)

Texas Air National Guard -
(scores lowest passing grade to be accepted)
Assigned to fly outdated planes in Houston
Not accepted to University of Texas Law School
Discharged 8 months early from national guard to attend Harvard Business School
Arrested for DUI
Graduated Harvard University
Lost bid for house of Representatives in 1978
Becomes CEO of Arbusto Oil Exploration
Receives $50k investment from James R Bath on behalf of Salem bin Laden (from my other supplemental reading Salem was a very progressive and pioneering man... I think it an unfair political attack on Bush, much like I think it's unfair to attack Obama on connections to other muslims... although I do think that Arbusto was receiving funds because of connections and not because of merit).
Arbusto nears bankruptcy and merges with Spectrum 7. Spectrum 7 loses $1.5 million and is purchased by Harken Energy. Bush sells stock in company shortly before Harken announces significant losses.
Bush moves to DC to work on his father's campaign.
Bush then runs for governor of Texas and wins. Pushes through tax cuts and ability for people to carry concealed weapons as well as funding faith based initiatives. Proclaims June 10, 2000 as Jesus Day.
Bush runs for president and loses popular vote, but wins electoral vote. Becomes president after partisan supreme court vote.

Barack Obama:
Parents divorce at early age, mother remarries and moves to Indonesia, where attends school until 10. He returns to Honolulu and attends Punahou school through high school. Moves to LA and goes to Occidental College and then to Columbia University and majors in political science and international relations. Works for 4 years in companies that assist US companies do business abroad as well as NYPIRG, a non partisan public interest group.

Moves to Chicago and works as director for Developing Communities Project, a church based community group and grows budget from 70k to 400k. Sets up job training program, college prep program and tenants rights organization.

Goes to Harvard Law School and becomes editor of law review based on winning a competition and becomes president of law review. Graduates Harvard Magna Cum Laude.

Goes to work at Sidley & Austin law firm. University of Chicago Law School recruits Obama based on his work of the Harvard Law Review and gives him fellowship to write a book about race relations. He then directs Project Vote! registering 150,000 people to vote in Illinois. He then teaches constitutional law at University of Chicago Law School. He then joins law group focusing on civil rights and neighborhood economic development.

Obama wins Illinois state Senate seat in 1996. Sponsors law increasing tax credits for low income workers, negotiated welfare reform and promoted increased subsidies for childcare. Supports Republican Governor Ryan predatory loan and mortgage regulations. Led unanimous bipartisan legislation against racial profiling by police. Reelected to Illinios Senate 2 more times and loses run for US House of Representatives. Wins race for US Senate in 2004.

Once in the senate, he supported the Energy Policy Act of 2005, cosponsored border security act with John McCain and supported the secure fence act. Cosponsored a bill with Lugar and Coburn (2 Republicans) to reduce conventional weapons, such as land mines. Introduces a bill requiring nuclear power plant owners to notify authorities of radioactive leaks (this isn't law already!?!). This bill is blocked. Introduces the "Democratic Republic of Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act", which is signed into law (there you go Phreedm) by President Bush. Works with Feingold to eliminate gifts of travel by lobbyinsts.

There's a bit more, but I'm sure with a little research, you too can find it. If I look at these two resumes, I have my own opinion about the merit vs. nepotism.

While on the topic of politics, this may be a good time to respond to JCC's earlier post.

A lot of name calling? I only used one to refer to Obama, and since when does messiah carry a negative connotation?

When it is used sarcastically. I find this odd chorus of conservatives calling Obama the messiah. I think this is a silly strawman argument. I do not think his supporters see him as a messiah. They see him as a politician who could do a good job. I suspect if gets elected, he will get through a few initiatives, but I'm not convinced he can completely change the course of this country, unfortunately.

Are you insinuating that you’ve never used sarcasm here?

I'm saying that I'd prefer to leave it behind and that I don't think I've been sarcastic here in quite some time.

No, I’m not okay when you malign Bush for nothing other than partisan reasons.

You say that I'm attacking for nothing other than partisan reasons, but consider 1. do you attack Obama for nothing other than partisan reasons and 2. do you think that there's a reason for partisan divide? This goes into a longer conversation about what that partisan divide is and what it represents. First and foremost, I object to people getting to high places based on who they know and who they are rather than merit. As demonstrated above, Bush has had no successful business dealings that I'm aware of, has a mediocre at best service in the military and won governorship, but I do not think he would have even been able to run in politics without the family name. I do not see any major personal accomplishments that could have gotten him to where he is today except for his family name.

I think that we define the success of a presidency and define freedom in very different ways. If you think of the government as a commonwealth, as the citizens taxes themselves to create infrastructure to create more equality and freedom, then a president who cuts government programs and defunds programs to keep them from running is not a success. If you see freedom as the freedom from want and the freedom from religion, if you see it as freedom of choice and the freedom to marry who you love, regardless of sexuality orientation, then this president is not a success.

I imagine that you see Bush as a success because you define freedom differently. I think that you see freedom as freedom to proselytize and freedom to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I think you see Iraq as a success because this administration topple a dictator and I see it as a failure because going beyond that toppling, there was no planning or thought or understanding about what to do afterwards, which is evident by the outcome. As a non-partisan comment, I think Jay Garner was right and Rumsfeld should have kept him in place as the viceroy. I believe he shared a lot of the same ideas as Prince Bandar and I think if their ideas were followed, we would see a much better situation in Iraq today. This is an example of what I think is a failure of this presidency: putting loyalty ahead of ability, which is evident here and with Gonzales and with his supreme court consideration of (I think it's) Judith Miller.

Partisanship exists for a reason. You attack democratic candidates based on partisanship and then recoil if the same is done to Bush. Bush does not represent my ideas of freedom and does not view government even remotely near how I do. You are more in line with Bush's beliefs and I am not. Is it any surprise that I do not support a president who is creating an America that goes against my idea of what America should be? Do you think this country is better off than it was 8 years ago?

Uh Oh...even the AP is proving the Bush haters wrong...

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program - a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium - reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107ap_iraq_yellowcake_mission.html

Hey Spanders....in case you haven't figured it out. Bush isn't running again...

spanders
obama will pour millions into faith based groups.this is unacceptable bush crossed a red line and obama wants to keep going why not have a state church then or let the churchs take care of all the social welfare programs,healthcare,education.we are headed down a very slick slope.

phreedm
that is quite a streach.saddam admitted that while he wanted a nuclear arsenal at the time he was bluffing iran.

Phreeky has to be the most ill-informed asshole on the planet. The yellow cake that BushCo referred to, and lied about, in his state of the union speech was in regrads to illegal obtained yellow cake. The yellow cake that the moron referred to with his above link was not illegal or unknown to the IAEA. So this friggin asshole Phreeky supported a war that killed 100s of thousands of Iraqis, displaced millions (population about 25 mil) and cost the US 4100 US troops and trillions of dollars and he did even have the decency to think critically or ask questions. Ban this piece of shit from posting here!

Typo corrections:

Phreeky has to be the most ill-informed asshole on the planet.

The yellow cake that BushCo referred to, and lied about, in his state of the union speech was in regards to illegally obtained yellow cake. The yellow cake that the resident moron referred to with his above link was not illegal or unknown to the IAEA. So this friggin asshole Phreeky supported a war that killed 100s of thousands of Iraqis, displaced millions (population about 25 mil) and cost the US 4100 US troops and trillions of dollars and he didn't even have the decency to think critically, ask questions and get the facts straight.

Ban this piece of shit from posting here at AA!

Ban this piece of shit from posting here at AA! He is neither an american or an atheist.

Phreedm, according to your own question, it's about the qualifications of a candidate before they become president. You ask what a person has done before they run for president, I answer and show two recent examples. Do you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

Reason, if both McCain and Obama back faith based initiatives, it looks like there's not much choice on the issue. I will need to look for distinctions in other areas and see which candidate most closely aligns with my values.

What
don't let phreedm get under your skin.you are stronger then that.now go have a slice of yellowcake and a glass of milk.

reason, did I tell you today that I love you?

Spanders
a thoughtful answer i like that.i think obama is probably closer to your values and i have no problem with someone voting on that basis.and don't get me wrong i believe a church does have a right to operate a charity,school etc.it is the use of public funds i'm concerned about.

Reason

Ummmm Yellow cake. Of course BushCo will fudge the frosting.

Talk about being misinformed and believing a lie...

I'm always amazed at how one's hatred can blind them to the Truth...

Comment from: What

The yellow cake that BushCo referred to, and lied about, in his state of the union speech was in regrads to illegal obtained yellow cake.

Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying
July 26, 2004
Updated: August 23, 2004
Two intelligence investigations show Bush had plenty of reason to believe what he said in his 2003 State of the Union Address.
http://www.factcheck.org/bushs_16_words_on_iraq_uranium.html

New and Not Improved

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/opinion/04fri1.html

Wow...got to be tough when the left leaning NY Times even discusses how the "messiah" has turned on his minions...

Obama's faith-based B.S. gets under my skin. Flirty-fishing is a legitimate religious strategy and Obama's use of public funds should enable David Berg's "Family" to get $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to promote prostitutes for Christ....same as the Catholic church/NAMBLA chapter.

From the piece of shits link:

Ironically, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who later called Bush’s 16 words a “lie”, supplied information that the Central Intelligence Agency took as confirmation that Iraq may indeed have been seeking uranium from Niger.

When BushCo's chump George Tenet spins Wilson's information into "support" for BushCo's lies no red flags go up for our resident scum bag xian.

Phreeky. I usually do not address you directly and this will be the only time I will. Name the time and place and I will be there to kick the crap out of you.

Nobama '08!

LOL Alex!

What,
Your Savior is backpedaling on his immediate Iraq withdrawal plan too. Money for Jesus, racist friends, more war, what's it going to take for you to see he's no different than any other politician?

mx

He hasn't budged one iota on Iraq. Stop watching Fox "News" fool.

mx

You are likely one of the lower-my-taxes-at-any-cost republicans so tell do you think you would take home more money in the long run if your taxes were lowered? Do you think you took home more money under BushCo?

For you gun totting fools

http://tinyurl.com/6o4bba

Guns are far more often used in suicide than in homicide.

What: I don't have cable TV, so I do not have access to Faux News.

Sorry to burst your bubble:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11517.html

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Thursday backed off his firm promise to withdraw combat forces from Iraq immediately and instead said he could “refine” his plan after his trip to Baghdad later this month.

I've also been a registered Democrat since I've been able to vote.

Yes, lower taxes would be perfect. We don't need 90% of the military, government subsidies for industry, social security (ponzi scheme), the ATF, the DEA, etc. We don't need more oil industry taxes, because it's screwing the middle class through their 401ks & pensions.

And what is wrong with gun use in suicides? It is neither your or Big Brother's business to interfere with how someone chooses to live or end their life.

Sorry to burst yours but one day later he said that his plan remained the same despite media hysterics over the word "refined". What the hell does "refined" me to you anyhow? Jeeez.

So you think if taxes were lowered across the board you would take home more pay in the long run? Want to think again?

Mx

The problem is that you seem not to understand the dynamics of suicide and attempted suicide. Care to "refine" your "what is wrong with gun use in suicides" statement now that you have had a chance to think about it a bit longer. Or are you that callous towards people that suffer from clinic depression and schizophrenia.

MX, Phreedm, et. al.

And to those that address What (I don't know). By now you should have figured out that this obnoxious moron isn't woth the time of day.

I come back after a brief absence and what do I find? More of What (a dumbfuck I am)'s absolute drivel.

Of course, people like him post the most because they are infatuated with their exagerrated sense of self importance.

I discovered after trying to have a decent conversation that it's literally impossible. I wouldn't waste any more of your time...

Tiny Tim

Is that what you call an argument? Dullard.

Tiny

When you try to insult my intelligence I have one hell of a good laugh. Especially humorous is your "What (I don't know)" attempt at insulting me. It's kind of like a mycoplasma calling a whale Little. I feel like I have my hand on top of your head casually hold you at arms length while you fecklessly flail away.

But hey, knock yourself out! It's a riot.

MX

Your Savior ...

? Did you get religion? It's sounding like it.

What,
Yes, lower taxes (which would come about with elimination of the aforementioned unnecessary government programs) will result in more take home pay. Laffer curve?

The problem with saying "guns = easy suicide" doesn't fix the problem, which as you pointed out are typically mental health issues. You're attempting to solve a symptom & not the disease, and unfortunately, this seems to be standard MD procedure.

EX

Yes, lower taxes (which would come about with elimination of the aforementioned unnecessary government programs) will result in more take home pay. Laffer curve?

I don't think the Laffer curve applies. A more fundamental economic principle is at play. What will the market bear? Your employer knows what pay you and similar workers will work for. If taxes were lowered for such workers your employer would adjust the pay to give you what you were making prior to the tax decrease. Net gain? Zip.

The problem with saying "guns = easy suicide" doesn't fix the problem, which as you pointed out are typically mental health issues. You're attempting to solve a symptom & not the disease, and unfortunately, this seems to be standard MD procedure.

Most diseases are not cured - they are treated so that symptoms are ameliorated. This has nothing to do with "standard MD procedure" - whatever that is - but simply the state of medical science and cost vs benefit ratios.

The problem with guns and suicide is that those afflicted by the horrible disease of clinical depression often can get beyond the depression (and at least manage it) with time. Since most suicides attempts, by means other than hand gun, are not successful these folks have a chance to live on. But for those with access to a hand gun ... game over.
Approximately 10 percent of Americans suffer from major clinical depression - you, no doubt, know somebody, possibly a family member, with the disease. So if you think having a handgun around the house makes you and the people you care about safer ... think again.

EX -> MX

mx,

For what it's worth, you are correct. Lower taxes result in more take home pay despite what self-proclaimed experts say to the contrary.

On the gun issue. There are a lot of people who like to quote meaningless statistics to assert causation when in fact no causation can be inferred. This is a well-known phenomenon often used by those who either have never taken statistics or by those who HAVE and know how to manipulate them to grind their particular axes.

While it may be factually correct to make the statement, "statistically, households that have guns have higher instances of injury and death", it does not prove causation. You could also state with certainty that "statistically, households with guns have lower injuries of injury and death."

The issue involves context. It's not useful to make and an "Apples vs. Oranges" comparison. You have to go deeper into the issue to find out what's really happening. Some folks just find it easier to make assertions without backing them up.

The xian answer to everything: More Jesus. More guns.

While it may be factually correct to make the statement, "statistically, households that have guns have higher instances of injury and death", it does not prove causation. You could also state with certainty that "statistically, households with guns have lower injuries of injury and death."

Is that paragraph actually decipherable. Back on the meds dude ... or dud.

what's it going to take for you to see he's no different than any other politician?

MX, Planned Parenthood just endorsed Obama, only their second endorsement in history (or as Richard D. says "herstory"). Obama does seem to make all the right decisions in regards to reproductive freedom. And you're way right about "standard MD procedure".

What- depression is way overdiagnosed, much to the glee of big pharma. What makes you think these people wouldn't simply jump off a bridge instead? Should we ban bridges because the poor depressed people (who seriously need to quit eating cheese-puffs and the like) may use them for unintended uses?

Most diseases are not cured - they are treated so that symptoms are ameliorated.

Most MD are not even allowed to learn about potential cures; they're taught how to dispense drugs during their parma-sponsored academia. Are any of you rushing your two-year olds in the have their cholesterol evaluated and to be prescribed statins? These people are insane! This is why the Academy of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) is trying kick drug reps out of their institutions. When that happens, we'll all benefit, even the depressed people.

Oops, blockquote faux-pas.

cry4turtles

Should we ban bridges because the poor depressed people (who seriously need to quit eating cheese-puffs and the like) may use them for unintended uses?

Speaking as a depressed person, who was not misdiagnosed, I'd have to say you're missing the point about the immediacy of guns involving suicide, as opposed to bridges. Also the privacy factor. The gun is right there in your own home. It's used when no one is around to intervene. It's fast, relatively painless, efficient, hard to mess up.

A bridge, you first have to get to, it has to be of proper height, and/or over proper terrain,(you don't want to end up simply disabled) secluded, or low traffic, and once you get there, you have to be able to follow-through. There's more possibility of backing out while staring below over the side of a bridge than while holding a gun to one's head, IMO.

Cry4turtles

You have posted before on health related matters and every time I have shown that you are just spouting nonscientific new-age babble. Care to try to back up any of your above nonsense with facts?

Cry4

I unlike Karen have never suffered from clinical depression but have seen the disease up close. I challenge you to spend sometime on a pysch ward and see what clinical depression really is. Then come back here and apologize to those with this life altering disease.

spanders:

First, why was I not surprised to see in your comparison of Bush’s record to Obama’s any mention of: Obama’s admitted prior drug use; his smoking addiction; his 20 year association with the racist Jeremiah Wright; his close association with anti-American terrorist, William Ayers; his sweetheart mortgage deal on his Chicago mansion from convicted felon Tony Rezko; or his lack of participation in any significant legislation in his very short time in the US Senate?

I do not think his supporters see [Obama] as a messiah.

Perhaps you should actually visit the sites I listed (in my earlier response to you which I repeat below) before you make such demonstrably falsifiable claims:
http://www.slate.com/id/2158578/
http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com/
http://tinyurl.com/5tfafo
http://tinyurl.com/6eovym
http://tinyurl.com/4dpmu4

do you think that there's a reason for partisan divide?

Yes. Liberalism is an unrealistic, impractical, misguided and demonstrably failed philosophy; while Conservatism is none of those.

Bush has had no successful business dealings that I'm aware of

Did you deliberately overlook his success with the Texas Rangers or did you simply disregard that as a “bad” data point?

[Bush] has a mediocre at best service in the military and won governorship

Are you trying to say that his election and re-election to the Texas Governorship were by insignificant margins? If so, where do you get your “facts” from?

I do not think he would have even been able to run in politics without the family name.

Do you think the same would be true for Ted Kennedy, Al Gore, and Mrs. Clinton?

I do not see any major personal accomplishments that could have gotten him to where he is today except for his family name.

Again, I ask: where do you get your information from?—or do you even look?

If you think of the government as a commonwealth, as the citizens taxes themselves to create infrastructure to create more equality

Did I read that right?—do you actually believe the government has the ability and is obligated to create equality? Is this a part of Lakoff’s lunacy?

a president who cuts government programs and defunds programs to keep them from running is not a success.

Huh??? Even if those “programs” are fraught with corruption, fraud and are doing the public no practical good?

If you see freedom as the freedom from want and the freedom from religion

Whoa!!!—are you saying government can (or should) eliminate our wants???—or worse—that we should strive to be “free from wants?” Are you serious with all this nonsense, or are you just trying to yank my chain?

I imagine that you see Bush as a success because you define freedom differently.

Judging from the Lakoffesque, kook-fringe-thinking of what you’ve asserted above, I’d say it’s because we define reality differently.

Is it any surprise that I do not support a president who is creating an America that goes against my idea of what America should be?

Bush has “created” an America? That’s odd, it still seems, looks and feels like the same, good ol’, US of A to me…

Do you think this country is better off than it was 8 years ago?

Uh, yeah: in January ’01, the Dow was under 10k, now it’s over 11k, and unemployment has been holding steady at us being virtually fully employed since after Bush’s tax cuts took effect. The only downer is that “America’s chickens has come homes to roosts!” (as the UCC affiliated, and documented racist, “Rev.” Wright puts it) with regard to our dependence on foreign oil—and we can blame that squarely on the oppressive government influence of the fringe, ultra-leftist, anti-capitalist, environmentalists-wackos.

Dave,

Maybe you should set up a side project blog where all illogical, ad hominem, name-calling etc. posts are "deleted without apology."

It's depressing to see fellow atheists being dragged down (and sometimes leading the way!) to these illogical, argument-losing methods. The trolls love it because they don't have to explain exactly why it is that we should believe their version of god rewards members of a certain culture who have blind faith.

If any of you think mockery changes opinions, can you tell me how many opinions you have changed by calling people morons or idiots?

mx,

At least we know now that statistics were likely not What's [ahem] forte...

Karen! Have you read this from jcc?

...our dependence on foreign oil—and we can blame that squarely on the oppressive government influence of the fringe, ultra-leftist, anti-capitalist, environmentalists wackos.

Are you sure you want to communicate with an insane person?

Chris B,

Mockery isn't about changing opinions, but you know that.

Once in a while I get a little tired of the B.S. so I have to call it like I see it. But I can't hold a candle to some folks here. Like I commented on another thread... It's starting to smell like the daily Kos here.

Chris B,
I doubt that anyone thinks mockery will change opinions. I, for one, am not at all concerned about converts on this blog and I wish the trolls would go away.
Although, that last post by jcc is as educational as it is moronic. It is certainly a window on the thinking of the religious right. Can you imagine a world run by such a being? His poor, poor children.

What:

If taxes were lowered for such workers your employer would adjust the pay to give you what you were making prior to the tax decrease. Net gain? Zip.

Even though I heartily disagree that reduction of taxes will produce an equal wage deflation, I'll bite & accept your statement as true. However, you're still not looking at the market as a whole.

Taxes decrease, wages deflate (while, as you stated, purchasing power stays the same), however, you're overlooking the supply side of the economy. What you just set up is for companies to pay less in taxes & wages, while still being able to charge the same price for products, and that yields larger profits.

That's more money in our portfolios & hence, take home pay, is it not?

This is exactly why a "windfall profits tax" is stupid. It hurts everyone's 401ks, IRAs & money market funds more than it saves at the pump.

What,
If all we were worried about is giving the clinicall depressed a "chance to live on", why not just straight jacket them in padded rooms where we know they have a 0% chance of harming themselves?

I bet you'll insist that MDs will try to provide the best quality of life (which is the right thing, IMO) with the least amount of personal restrictions.

You do see that your entire argument is that you feel a tighter level of personal restrictions is more necessary than what I think?

Opinion vs opinion, in other words.

Why not follow the Constitution?

I find myself terrified that you agree with me Tim. LOL

Don't worry there's more to fight about elsewhere.

iraq is calling for a 5 yr timetable for US to go home sounds reasonable to me.it would do wonders for our image to honor their request.5 yrs is plenty of time to help get them up to speed.i hope both candidates and the president get on board with this.

mx,

You're cool. We've had disagreements before, but to my recollection you've never been disagreeable! I just had to come to your defense because of the blatant misinformation and insults hurled your way.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll take issue with something I post before long.

Obeah:

Although, that last post by jcc is as educational as it is moronic. It is certainly a window on the thinking of the religious right. Can you imagine a world run by such a being? His poor, poor children.

Unbelievable, that someone who claims to be so intelligent, actually derives his info from Faux Noise, the laughingstock of the news media.
I've read less deranged copy in the Enquirer.
Obama's only got his head 1/2 way up his ass - unlike the Shrubbery, who'd only be a better president if he
A. Took a firecracker,
B. Put it between his teeth,
C. Lit it, &
D. Stuck his head up his ass.
Since he makes hourly sojourns up that orifice, likely there're deer paths & whatnot.

REason,

Good point. We've actually handed over about half the provinces to them as of today. It's a relief to see that the surge was such a success and that the situation is well on the way to solving itself.

The next president will have it relatively easy if he or she doesn't pull out precipitously.

KA,

"Unbelievable, that someone who claims to be so intelligent, actually derives his info from Faux Noise, the laughingstock of the news media."

Oh now, that's really rich. Fox News literally kicks the other networks asses in ratings, my friend. So you must think that the other alphabet soup networks are fair and balanced, huh? Are they unbiased? GMAFB!

I mean, it's a well known fact that Obama has his own network. PMSNBC has made no secret of their out and out promotion of him for President!

How does that Koolaid taste?

mx,

"This is exactly why a "windfall profits tax" is stupid. It hurts everyone's 401ks, IRAs & money market funds more than it saves at the pump."

Well, technically you are correct, but you have to remember that a windfall profits tax isn't designed to help offset higher gas prices. The intent is to punish those evil corporations for making a profit! Never mind that the truth is Oil company profit margins are among the lowest for all industries.

Personally, I think they should get medals for having to endure the kangaroo court certain elected officials set up to make themselves look important.

After that spectacle, I shudder to think folks would actually be willing to turn over our healthcare to a bunch of know-nothing bureaucrats like them!

Obeah

Are you sure you want to communicate with an insane person?

:-D My friends tell me I'm a natural magnet for drunks, kooks and schizophrenics! Wherever I go, if there's only one of any of those in the crowd, he'll work his way over to me. One night in Tijuana, I picked up a drunk and a schizo in the same night. The schizo was actually on the train back to San Diego, and said she normally didn't like people at all, but she liked me. She was a CIA agent, doncha know, and I should keep it real, cuz they were watching me, yep.

Guess you could say I'm just doin' unto others, cuz I'm a crazy person too.

That whole post of jcc's to spanders was kinda whacky. He really gets his knickers in a bunch with spanders, cos spanders plays for the same team, but he's so damn reasonable!

MX

What you just set up is for companies to pay less in taxes & wages, while still being able to charge the same price for products, and that yields larger profits.

That's more money in our portfolios & hence, take home pay, is it not?

Once again, in the absence of monopoly or collusion, or the market will charge what the market will bear. Companies will compete for business by lowering their price and that will continue until they are right back to the old profit margin. If a particular business plays the game well as prices readjust they may end up with a better market share but that is about all. There
goes that portfolio. I hope you didn't spend any of it before you got it.

The typical salaried american has two principle means to increase their take home pay. By making yourself more competitive - principally through education - or by organization of similar workers to collectively bargain for higher pay.

Why not follow the Constitution?

Two points. (1) Sorry but quite intentionally the constitution does not address all conflicts that will arise in our society let alone how they should be handled and (2) The firearm discussion that I began was about the "right to bear arms" but rather about the assumption, made by some people, that having a firearm in their home will result in increased safety for all members of the household. It will not. That should be obvious even for pinheads like Tiny Tim.

Karen

You're not crazy. Love ya!

Reason

iraq is calling for a 5 yr timetable for US to go home sounds reasonable to me.it would do wonders for our image to honor their request.5 yrs is plenty of time to help get them up to speed.i hope both candidates and the president get on board with this.

For the last five years BushCo has been saying it will all turn around in six months ... over ... and over ... and over again ...

So now your bitting at five more years? Remember the war criminals "Fool me once" tongue twister? Becuase if you don't I know somebody that would like to sell you a house.

Hell what's a few more trillion dollars and few more 100 thousand Iraqi lives right?

was about the -> was not about the

Reason

If you want to have a real discussion about what is going on in Iraq then I would suggest that you read Juan Cole's blog at:

http://www.juancole.com/

There is a post dated 7/9/08 on Juan's blog on the subject of your last post.

JCC

The U.S. economy must add more than 100,000 jobs each month to merely keep pace with the increase in the working-age population. These past 6 months the nonfarm payroll employment has dropped more than 400,000.

But don't let those pesky facts get in the way of your maniacal worship of the war criminal BushCo.

What

You're not crazy. Love ya!

Heh. Naw, I'm just "psychologically challenged"! Love ya back! I'm really glad you're sticking around here, even though you're not supporting AA.

KA,

Unbelievable, that someone who claims to be so intelligent, actually derives his info from Faux Noise,...

I have been trying to find the words that would convey how I feel about his opinions. There are none; they all seem to weak. A lot of people are repeating the Dover judge,ie., "breathtaking" as in breathtakingly stupid, asinine, or absurd. There seems to be no limit to the foolishness which incases his bile. Each time I think that he has reached that limit I am surprised to find that I lack the imagination needed to predict...predict what?...words are not enough.

Care to try to back up any of your above nonsense with facts?

Absolutely! But I can't right now. Could you give me to the weekend? I got a busy week.

Tim-MAY!:

Oh now, that's really rich. Fox News literally kicks the other networks asses in ratings, my friend. So you must think that the other alphabet soup networks are fair and balanced, huh? Are they unbiased? GMAFB!

Ummm...are you being willfully obtuse? American Idol kicks ass in ratings, it's STILL a stupid show you couldn't pay me to watch. We've had this talk before: an argument from numbers is a fallacy, AKA a form of cognitive dissonance.
I also said nothing about other networks, did I?
Either you're none too bright, or you're just being fractious.

How does that Koolaid taste?

Never had any, thanks.
The only reason I'm voting Obama, is there's no other reasonable alternative.
Unless you're electioneering for LaRouche?

What,
Unfortunately reality doesn't agree with your very simplistic assumptions.

The 4 years after the Harding-Coolige tax cuts, real GDP increased 70% compared to the 4 years prior.

With the JFK cuts, real GDP increased 11%.

Washington state, which has a 0.91$ value of an after tax dollar (the highest in the US) has experienced a 75% increase in personal income over the past decade.

Arkansas, has a 0.82$ value (the lowest) & saw personal income increase 60% over the same period.

The top 10 states averaged 67%, the bottom 10 averaged 60%.

Reality check anyone?

Also, it looks like Obama is going to be repealing the 13th amendment by mandating serfdom to the middle class.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/02/text-obamas-speech/

jcc unbelievably said:

Liberalism is an unrealistic, impractical, misguided and demonstrably failed philosophy; while Conservatism is none of those. (emphasis mine)

Geezus, talk about drinking koolaid! Liberalism certainly has it's own share of issues and inconsistencies, but even my most conservative family members, including my own father - a long time Republican donor and brilliant hurler of the word 'libeeeraaaal' as an epithet, would agree that the past eight years have been a very long and painful series of 'demonstrable failures'.

Mx

Reality check anyone?

What are you doing? We were talking about the pay of salaried workers and how a change of taxes can be expected to effect that pay. You shifted to talking about the GDP which is a measure of national income and output and not a measure of salaried workers pay. That is just retarded. Yes, a reality check is in order.

Cry4

Absolutely! But I can't right now. Could you give me to the weekend? I got a busy week.

Hmm I would think with such an extraordinary claim such as

Most MD are not even allowed to learn about potential cures;

that you would have an extraordinary evidence to support it. By the way where did you go to medical school?

MX

I would like to say in advance that my "retarded" comment above was inappropriate. Although you strongly defend your positions you do so no more than I.

Obeah:

Karen! Have you read this from jcc?

...our dependence on foreign oil—and we can blame that squarely on the oppressive government influence of the fringe, ultra-leftist, anti-capitalist, environmentalists wackos.

Ok, so instead of insulting the messenger, why not try a new approach and attempt to refute the claim? Can you tell me, what besides environmental restrictions are keeping our domestic petroleum production and refinement capacity from supplying our total demand? We certainly don’t lack the domestic reserves, and we haven’t build a new refinery in over 30 years—so why are we only able to come up with a third of our needs?

jcc

Can you tell me, what besides environmental restrictions are keeping our domestic petroleum production and refinement capacity from supplying our total demand?

That's easy.
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/Hubbert/

But since you're so concerned about our apparent need for more refineries, can we build the first new one in your backyard?

karen:

That whole post of jcc's to spanders was kinda whacky.

Really? Then, how ‘bout taking the same challenge I gave Obeah, and put your money where your mouth is by “reasonably” refuting it, point-by-point?

He really gets his knickers in a bunch with spanders, cos spanders plays for the same team

Huh? How you got that idea is beyond me.

but he's so damn reasonable!

Why thank you, but if I’m so reasonable, why’d you call my post “whacky?” ;-)

JCC

Really? Then, how ‘bout taking the same challenge I gave Obeah, and put your money where your mouth is by “reasonably” refuting it, point-by-point?

I refuted your ignorance in my above post but as usual there is no response from you when your idiocy is laid bear. Is it a shock to you when others here take the only reasonable course of action in regards to your hit-and-run posts - mocking your willful ignorance?

rainbows4dinosaurs:

That's easy.

Maybe you didn’t notice the first two words in that link: “The late Dr. M. King Hubbert…” I can’t believe I actually have to point this out—especially to such an enlightened segment of the population—clearly Dr. Hubbert’s prediction didn’t take into account advances in drilling technology (i.e. directional, MWD, etc.); enormous improvements in primary, secondary, and tertiary recovery methods and the tremendous benefit of software in driving the exploration paradigm shift from a stochastic to a strategic model; nor did he take into consideration the possibility or magnitude of such finds as Chevron’s deep water Gulf, the now recoverable fields like the Bakken formation in North Dakota, the oil shales of Colorado, Utah and Wyoming—not to mention the potential of ANWR (oh, and don’t forget Petrobras’ enormous find in the Santos basin—that makes Saudi Arabia look small).

So, with that in mind, do you still want to argue that our supply isn’t artificially suppressed by environmentalists?

But since you're so concerned about our apparent need for more refineries, can we build the first new one in your backyard?

Ha! Absolutely! I’d be laughing (at you) all the way to the bank!

rainbows4dinosaurs:

Ooops, almost overlooked this piece of low-hanging fruit:

my own father - a long time Republican donor and brilliant hurler of the word 'libeeeraaaal' as an epithet, would agree that the past eight years have been a very long and painful series of 'demonstrable failures'.

Well, maybe that’s because true, conservative principles haven’t been consistently applied by this administration…

Geeze, rainbows, those last two posts just weren’t quite there for you. Sounds like you maybe startin’ to lose it.

jcc,
We can dig ourselves into oblivion, but it's still going to run out. All those brilliant technologies you've listed only prove two things: That it is getting harder and harder to find the stuff, and that we make a bigger mess of things each time we start drilling. Maybe you like the mess - most folks don't.

Ha! Absolutely! I’d be laughing (at you) all the way to the bank!

'Ha' indeed. I would say you're more likely to be coughing and hacking on the way to your bank. Good luck with that though.

Anyway, here are a couple technologies that I personally find a lot more interesting than your fantastic earth-raping machines:

1) Cellulosic ethanol
Regular ethanol is of course created with corn, which of course has been driving up food costs and is therefore not a viable solution. But one good thing current ethanol production has done is create the infrastructure necessary to begin adopting cellulosic ethanol which is made from the leaves, stems, and stalks of plants. Basically all the shit that we 'environmentalists wackos' throw into our compost piles. In fact, the current estimate is that about two thirds of what we toss into our landfills contains cellulose that could be converted into fuel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol

2) Genetically engineered, wasting eating, crude oil pooping bacteria
That's right - scientists have created bacteria that secrete actual crude oil. Turns out their normal waste is only a few fatty acids away from the black stuff. So with a few tweaks to the dna of the critters we've ended up with a potential solution that will not only fit right into our current infrastructure but is also carbon neutral, as the bacteria breath in the same amount of CO2 that they poop out as oil.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

jcc

Well, maybe that’s because true, conservative principles haven’t been consistently applied by this administration…

Nice crappy-ass excuse. When exactly in history have these 'true' conservative principles been employed so that we might see an example of conservatism's absolute perfection? Let me guess, you're going to site Reagan. The eighties... (shudder)