NoGodBlog.com

President Jefferson was indeed a good heathen. Leave it to Bush to pick-and-choose quote him as other fundamentalist Christians have done. (Fundies have not only pick-and-choose quoted Mr Jefferson but also Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, and others). Do you fellow Atheists think Mr Jefferson could be elected today?

I think his ownership of slaves would come up at some point on the campaing trail.

Cynic

I doubt think BushCo's moronic followers can rightly be called slaves according to the usual definition ... but ... then again.

I doubt think BushCo's moronic…

When making posts like this, perhaps one should think twice before referring to others as “morons.”

OK, so What is 1 for 2. He screwed up the word 'don't' with doubt, but he did get the part right that BushCo followers are morons.

BushLite is as the blog stated a puppet reading preprepared speeches... badly. Although Im sure his writers did in fact remove the "offending" section from the quote I still would not put it past BushLite to have simply muffed the line. Thanks to all for keeping the words of the Atheist on line.

Has anyone read Liars for Jesus? My local boy Texas David Barton is getting more press and he's the master of revisionism concerning xianity in our heritage.

Bush is a poor puppet, Maybe next time we can vote in Kermit a much better puppet and more loved. Remember the famous bush quote : Fool me once shame on me Fool me Twice ummmm I won't be fooled again " !!!!! Classic Bush right there !!!!!

If you think President Bush edited Jefferson to have him promote a position he never would have while living, then you should see the hash they made of his words on the inscriptions inside the Jefferson Memorial! The memorial, which was completed in 1943, picks and chooses snippets from a variety of Jefferson letters and documents, then strings them together in a way that has him endorsing God as the inspiration for everything American. It's a travesty!

TXatheist,
No, but that will be on my summer reading list

"...monkish ignorance and superstition ..." I like that. Where are the Jeffersons of today? We need them.

Man, we got people trying to put religious quotes in where they don't belong:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/memorial.asp

..and others trying to remove secular quotes where they do.


In all fairness, if the bursting the chains quote was to be read as a "hint..hint..Iraq..Afghanistan", then the monkish ignorance part could really open up a political can of worms. The statement would have been twisted to mean "anti-muslim" by focusing on "ignorant" and "superstitious", despite the fact the statement should be read as pro-secular (which, for many islamists, IS an anti-muslim stance).

I can see the fox headlines now,

THOMAS JEFFERSON FATHERED A BLACK BABY,

and maybe add on some fiction

AND LIKES TO KICK PUPPIES

I doubt think BushCo's moronic followers can rightly be called slaves according to the usual definition ... but ... then again.

When making posts like this, perhaps one should think twice before referring to others as “morons.”

Is there anyone here who has not made an error in spelling, grammar, and syntax? To criticize such minor mistakes is petty, stupid and moronic. I remember someone else doing this...oh yeah...the pussbucket whose name shall not be mentioned...

Thoz dat crittersize spel'n n da coment secshun of a blog r INANE DRONES.

This place is starting to smell like the daily Kos... reeeeeetcccchhhhh

Christ on a cracker! Catholics in Florida lose their minds over a stolen Christ on a cracker:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=912931E6387D06E86603288C86CA66A1?contentId=6932236&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

I think its fucking hilarious.

A quote from the article Alex referred to.

“We don’t know 100% what Mr. Cooks motivation was,” said Susan Fani a spokesperson with the local Catholic diocese. “However, if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”

I used to steal these things and make little sandwiches. These people are loons.

A hate crime is getting your head bashed in on the street because you are gay. Someone taking a tiny cracker from a church isn't a hate crime; it's not even worthy of mention.

I can just see bill donahue getting all red faced and sputtering mad over this.

How did we wind up with a president that acts so stupid for so long. you would think the corporations that choose our presidents would at least try to put someone that seems sane in office. That doesn't mean Honest. In order to ellect a rational and honest president the public needs to be much better educated instead of listening to the corporate media.

CNN article about atheist Jeremy Hall:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/atheist.soldier/index.html

The U.S. Justice Department is expected to respond to Hall's lawsuit this week. In the meantime, he continues to work in the military police unit at Fort Riley and plans to leave as soon as his tour of duty expires next year.

Zach

How did we wind up with a president that acts so stupid for so long.

Because a lot of lemming religious right dolts thought they could trade a few 100 thousand dead Iraqis for a couple of supreme court justices sympathetic to their one and only issue. But in the end they were duped - they got pro-corporate fanatics instead and a bill for a multi-trillion dollar occupation of Iraq and an unregulated banking industry turned Ponzi scheme.

Have you ever met a more gullible bunch than xians?

Alex

A hate crime is getting your head bashed in on the street because you are gay.

Never a truer thing said.

Has there ever been a gay oriented vigilante movie akin to Death Wish?

OT

Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/atheist.soldier/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Wow...speak about editing.

How much effort would it have taken to redo the original thread to repair the block quotes?

That in itself speaks volumes...

I'm lovin' it...McDonalds makes jesus cry:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kelly/mcdonalds-makes-jesus-cry_b_111421.html

Alex

That was hilarious! My favorite comment from the column:

"Dear, McDonald's. Last week I ate a cheeseburger at your restaurant. If I would've known it was created by gay loving hands, I wouldn't have purchased it. Don't you guys know gays were behind the holocaust? First Jews, and now the family. What is next, McDonald's? Are you going to help gays eradicate sand? WHAT WILL WE DO WITHOUT SAND!?!?"

Sand, alex? Why, oh why the sand? What is your horrible homosexual argument against sand? Without sand, there can be no family! (???) ;-)

So let's see...everyone's upset because Bush took a few words out of context from a private letter from Thomas Jefferson.

Wow...at least he didn't claim it was "law".

AA does the same everytime they proclaim the "myth"...

Resurrection story re-hash of earlier Jewish story:

The death and resurrection of Christ has been called into question by a radical new interpretation of a tablet found on the eastern bank of the Dead Sea.

The three-foot stone tablet appears to refer to a Messiah who rises from the grave three days after his death - even though it was written decades before the birth of Jesus.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4295804.ece

justme-
You know damn well the MSM will do everything they can to suppress this news.

This will be very interesting to watch.

Resurrection story re-hash of earlier Jewish story:

Most of xianity is a borrowed rehash of earlier jewish, Egyptian, and Babylonian myths. There is nothing original in it at all. Suck it jesus!

alex,
I saw that article last night and some of the comments those idiots left McDonald's were absolutely hilarious. Like the one that said something like "you're gonna cook just like your burgers."

Justme

Thanks for the link. With so much resurrecting going on maybe the link is between Hinduism and xianity rather than judaism and xianity.

Alex

Wasn't McEve created from McAdam's McRib?

Resurrect the McRib!

I want to ask for help from all members. I couldn’t find how to post a new topic so I am commenting on yesterday’s entry. I have been a leader in the Boy Scouts of America at Mission Bend United Methodist Church in Houston Texas for the past 6 years. There was a restructuring of the Boy Scout Troop by Mission Bend United Methodist Church and I decided to move to a new troop. I received a phone call last night from the scout executive at Sam Houston Council informing me that my membership is being revoked for my non-belief in God. I am an atheist and was told my transfer leader application to a different scout troop will not be approved because of my belief. That is even if the application is approved by the new charter organization which is in charge of the new troop. The way Boy Scouts operates usually is the leadership approval of a troop is left up to the charter organization. A charter organization can be any non-profit. They have two responsibilities; approve leadership and provide a safe meeting place. It seems against policy that the Sam Houston Council would revoke my membership or not approve my transfer application. The executive stated that the Boy Scouts of America is a faith based organization and reserves the right to refuse membership to me because I am an atheist. I think this is discrimination and I would say that it takes just as much faith to be an atheist. Neither God nor the nonexistence of a deity can be proven so belief or non-belief both takes faith. It is just more culturally accepted to believe in God instead of nothing. I was informed a letter stating the reasons for revoking my membership is on the way. Without being a member I can no longer participate in the Boy Scout program with my son. I will not be allowed to attend meetings or go camping anymore. I am a single mom and this aversely impacts the quality time I spend with my son. He is not sure is he wants to continue with Boy Scouts after this incident. If he does not feel comfortable continuing, then the Boy Scouts of America should be held responsible for taking away immeasurable opportunities from him. I would like to sue The Boy Scouts of America discriminating against me for being an atheist. If you have a lead on a lawyer willing to take on such a case could you please email me the contact information?

Boy Scouts discriminate against both atheists and gays and you are better off not being ivolved with this hateful organisation. There are plenty of other groups out there that you and your kid can join. Im confused though when you said that you are a single mom as I though only males could be active in the Boy Scouts???
Contact the ACLU and see if they think you have a case.

akantzar

Neither God nor the nonexistence of a deity can be proven so belief or non-belief both takes faith.

That's ridiculous. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. So there is no belief and no faith.

I really do not understand why you would want to be part of that organization given it's track record.

Just in case anyone missed the CNN story on the atheist suing the military...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xZgvkCIZzA



akanatzar

To put it simply....F the Boy Scouts organization.....if your an atheist why would you want to subject your son to an organization that builds little soldiers for jesus....

here's a wika link that says that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies

akantzar,

The Boy Scouts is a private organization, and they can exclude anyone they want to (and they certainly do). I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it's the way it is. You and your son should find some other outlet, like the Boys and Girls Club of America, or some such.

BTW, it doesn't take "faith" to be an atheist. That's just stupid.

Boy Scouts are a private organisation but they receive government money and support so maybe there is a case to be made. I dont know enough about them and dont really care. Call the ACLU.

akanatzar,

Take a look at getting involved with Camp Quest:

http://camp-quest.org/

There is not currently a Camp Quest located in TX, but as TX is increasingly becoming an atheist hotspot it won't be long! Maybe you could be involved in helping them along. Get involved with your local atheist group to make contacts who could help. See atheists.org to find such a group.

As for the BSA, forget them. The religous right has taken full control. The fellowship and fun they offer is just one more thing for an atheist to lose when they come out of the closet. It's one more discouragement for folks like you, which is exactly how the religious want it to be. I recommend directing your talents and energies into something productive for our community, e.g. Camp Quest.

Dave,

Maybe you should set up a side project blog where all illogical, ad hominem, name-calling etc. posts are "deleted without apology."

It's depressing to see fellow atheists being dragged down (and sometimes leading the way!) to these illogical, argument-losing methods. The trolls love it because they don't have to explain exactly why it is that we should believe their version of god rewards members of a certain culture who have blind faith.

If any of you think mockery changes opinions, can you tell me how many opinions you have changed by calling people morons or idiots?

Wall Street Journal article about Zimbabwe's central bank governor, who presides over million percent inflation:

"Anyone who says the bank governor should violate the head of state is violating a principle that Jesus Christ demanded of his disciples," says Mr. Gono, a churchgoing Christian and former commercial banker. "A key element Christ looked for in his disciples was loyalty."

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page86?oid=214052&sn=Detail

I've been returning to, and leaving, this blog for years-- I am so sick of seeing phreedm derail every single post with the troll tactics. It's really disgusting the way people give in to him. He should be ignored.

Yeah, right. Give up on the BSA. Give up on the military. Don't like the USA because of its religious leaders, go to another country.

Don't bother fighting ignorance. Don't stand up to bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance. Just go find another organization to join, that is until these morons take it over also.

Allow them to take over without fighting and we might as well resign ourselves to the inquisition again.

If you are not strong enough to fight, contact the ACLU. If this had happened in my neighborhood, I would make a total scene and embarrass them totally and show how weak and ignorant they really are.

Stop being cowards and fight these assholes.

Friday Pirate,

I hope you don't let anyone, troll or otherwise, keep you from this blog. Your advice to ignore these type of people is excellent. I usually just skim over his comments and any comments relating to him. That way I can enjoy the meat of the thread, and spit out the gristle.

:-)

I do really love a lot of the great things here. There are some great discussions.

I just wish it didn't feel like the burden of truth was being discussed every third thread, and citing the bible to prove the bible every second thread. I know that they're just trolls, and I'm fine ignoring that-- but it annoys the piss out of me to see the same people indulging these arguments time and time, and time, again.

Blah blah, gay agenda, blah blah, abortion rights, yadda yadda, Leviticus, so-and-so is a hypocrite, atheists BELIEVE there is no god therefore they subscribe to a belief...

Wow, there's two screen names I haven't seen in a while. How you'se dewdz doin'?

jefferson a rebel an traitor to his king and country he didn't pay his debts.what kind of hypocrite talks of liberty while owning 200 hundred slaves.he was no atheist but a deist who found it useful to remain a active member of a christian church.

Doin, doin.

Used to be elliejay, too, if that rings any bells.

I've found that most deists (modern ones, anyway) are essentially agnostics when you quiz them on it long enough. And agnostics are essentially atheists who don't care enough to deal with being thought of as an atheist.

alex

I used your link about the boycott of McDonald's to write a post at God Is for Suckers and gave you a hat tip. Thanks for posting about it!

http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/07/09/
no-more-happy-meals-for-jesus-kids/#comments

Comment from: Friday Pirate [Member]
I've been returning to, and leaving, this blog for years-- I am so sick of seeing phreedumb derail every single post with the troll tactics. It's really disgusting the way people give in to him. He should be ignored.
Permalink 07/09/08 @ 20:06

Comment from: pixel [Member]
Friday Pirate,
I hope you don't let anyone, troll or otherwise, keep you from this blog. Your advice to ignore these type of people is excellent. I usually just skim over his comments and any comments relating to him. That way I can enjoy the meat of the thread, and spit out the gristle.

I also stay away alot because of all the answers to trolls. (I don't read the ones that I recognize though.)
It is boring to read them and I am really surprised that people keep replying.

How about some deletions without apology?
back to lurk mode...

Should we expect any different from Christian fundies like Bush? It should be no surprise that they pull quotes out of context to suit their particular agenda — they even do it with their beloved bible.

I find it to be a rather insidious form of manipulation; using cherry-picked information to prey on the conscience of an ignorant public.

Personally, I read this as more than just a tribute to a great founding father but also as a thinly veiled attempt to, again, directly (or indirectly) justify his war in Iraq.

I tend to lurk for similar reasons to the above. Not enough deletion of the preachy crap from you-know-who and his motley crew.

I also lurk because so many believe the only true atheists are ones that are also liberal. Conservative or libertarian atheists are treated as if we're traitors to the cause. It disgusts me.

I too am a libertarian, sometimes conservative atheist & I know what you mean. Liberals often appear to be more judgemental of others than conservatives. I wonder if True atheists are actually conservatives - i.e., not narrow or closed minded.

Bible thumpers have to take things out of context in order for their tales to make sense. To be honest, I have to feel sorry for them because their world is imploding and they have absolutly nothing but their faith, and the Bible. Neither of which will stand under the light of day. You all know that is true.

Any Christian who wants to lay a few lines out here for inspiration can expect a dose of truth to be handed right back from their bad book. It is malarky, nothing more, nothing less.

I kind of even feel sorry for phreedm. How do we know what his life has been like or for that matter what conditions he is living under right now. Possibly his life is strictly controlled and he only has access to a computer with which he can occasionally vent his rage over unfair imposed isolation. Could be, how do we know?

If phreedm could just send a sign maybe we could pool our resources at this end and spring him. If he could let us know what mental institution he is in and give us a time and a date, maybe blink a flashlight from his window at midnight. I have a ladder and a truck. Anybody up for it? Let's phree phreedm.

Bible thumpers have to take things out of context in order for their tales to make sense. To be honest, I have to feel sorry for them because their world is imploding and they have absolutly nothing but their faith, and the Bible. Neither of which will stand under the light of day. You all know that is true.

Any Christian who wants to lay a few lines out here for inspiration can expect a dose of truth to be handed right back from their bad book. It is malarky, nothing more, nothing less.

I kind of even feel sorry for phreedm. How do we know what his life has been like or for that matter what conditions he is living under right now. Possibly his life is strictly controlled and he only has access to a computer with which he can occasionally vent his rage over unfair imposed isolation. Could be, how do we know?

If phreedm could just send a sign maybe we could pool our resources at this end and spring him. If he could let us know what mental institution he is in and give us a time and a date, maybe blink a flashlight from his window at midnight. I have a ladder and a truck. Anybody up for it? Let's phree phreedm.

sure didn't plan a double post, must be a sign

Rez,

I wonder if True atheists are actually conservatives - i.e., not narrow or closed minded.

What exactly is a "True atheist?"

alatham,

Semantics aside, I'll clarify.

Xians have this separation between themselves. If you aren't a fundamentalist, a tow-the-line Republican, and don't believe the leadership of the country should be entirely comprised of people like you: you aren't a true xian.

There's a very strongly liberal core to atheist politics (maintaining the secular wall between church and state) and it is undeniable. Some identify so strongly with their liberal beliefs that they take it upon themselves to push those of us with conservative or libertarian political views away. Kind of a "we don't want your kind here" mentality. This, to me, is a very direct parallel to the same issue more liberal xians face. If a liberal xian is not a "true xian" and a betrayer of their cause, then by the same token a conservative atheist is not a "true atheist" and a betrayer of the cause.

This is precisely how I feel, and why I rarely post. I can tell when I'm not wanted and for what reason.

atomic,

i am a conservative turned libertarian. no doubt many here are very liberal atheists, but why take anything said personally? let each blow off some steam now and then. it is easy to criticize and ridicule others in a blog setting. no blood and no consequences.

i just try and interject whenever it seems i have something worthwhile to offer, or to needle the trolls now and then just for kicks.

keep posting....

What Sayonara said.

I miss Atomictesting!

Comment from: alatham

What exactly is a "True atheist?"

Great question...there is no such thing.

Just like there is no such thing as a "true christian"...

Hey..."What do I know"...

I see your "messiah" has flipped once again...

What happened to his promised filibuster?

What's that...number 7 in the last 2 weeks?

Appears I feel the same way atomictesting does:

"There's a very strongly liberal core to atheist politics (maintaining the secular wall between church and state) and it is undeniable. Some identify so strongly with their liberal beliefs that they take it upon themselves to push those of us with conservative or libertarian political views away. Kind of a "we don't want your kind here" mentality. This, to me, is a very direct parallel to the same issue more liberal xians face. If a liberal xian is not a "true xian" and a betrayer of their cause, then by the same token a conservative atheist is not a "true atheist" and a betrayer of the cause."

Whenever I lurk on an atheist site , I don't feel encouraged to join the discussion & often don't. It often seems that the liberal mindset does not allow for disagreement with the party line.

I miss Atomictesting!

Me too! I value your input, Atomic. We've disagreed on gun control, but I think that's about it. I hope I haven't made you feel pushed aside. If I have, I sincerely apologize and ask what I can do to make it up to you.

karen
you don't hurt anyone good lady.
atomic,rez conservative atheist how do you define that.i consider myself one for reasons like favor death penalty belief that the constitution restricts gov't authority.how do you define it.i don't consider myself libertarian because i'm not against the gov't doing something if it has constitutional authority to do so.
like to hear your views.

karen,

i can't remember a time when you have made someone feel pushed aside. you have been a good natured and calming force on the blog.

rez,

since we are "free thinkers" it shouldn't be surprising that we would cover the political spectrum. and you one of your posts generates negative waves you can argue or ignore. either way is ok.

Thanks for your comments reason, sayanara & others. I will try to answer reason best I can this late in the day. I absolutely believe in peaceful coexistence if reasonably possible, so I don't usually make negative or attacking remarks.

I don't get too complicated with this. I'm an atheist with regard to a transcendent god. This is due to a lack of extra-biblical (or extra-koranic) evidence, as well as personal experience with the total ineffectiveness of prayer.

About government's role, I would agree with you, reason, because I too am not against government doing what it's supposed to do. Such as defend the country, build & maintain the infrastructure & so on. We might disagree about the extra-constitutional powers it has taken, such as most social service programs. I would hope we agree that governemnt has no business peeking into bedrooms or financing church programs (such as both Bush & apparently Obama believe in).

To comment on the original subject of this thread, yes, the founding fathers are misunderstood & misquoted all the time. So is the Bible & the Origin of Species. I find nothing really new about it.

phreedm

Just like there is no such thing as a "true christian"...

That's refreshing. Do you still believe there's such thing as a 'true conservative'?

atomictesting

This, to me, is a very direct parallel to the same issue more liberal xians face. If a liberal xian is not a "true xian" and a betrayer of their cause, then by the same token a conservative atheist is not a "true atheist" and a betrayer of the cause.

I find this to be a very profound analogy and it really has me thinking. Thank you.

I'm pretty sure that my politics come off as 'liberal' to most everyone here, and I've certainly had my share of lively, sometimes heated, discussions with some of the more libertarian members on this blog. But I also have many lively debates with my liberal friends, as I find many aspects of modern liberalism very annoying. Maybe I just can't help but want to argue everything out, or maybe I'm just very suspicious of cant, even when I'm tempted to agree.

I like to have my views challenged, especially by smart people. That's probably the only reason I ever post here, as I get bored with the echo chamber threads. I hope I've never said to you that would make you feel uninvited, and if so I apologize.

Rez

About government's role, I would agree with you, reason, because I too am not against government doing what it's supposed to do. Such as defend the country, build & maintain the infrastructure & so on.

Part of the problem that I have with discussing and arguing politics with conservatives is contained in, and often repeated by conservatives in one form or another, your post above: "what it's supposed to do". We decide what that it is. In a democracy there is no "supposed to". Words of this nature are indicative of rigid not rigorous thinking.

So do really stand by your "supposed to" statement or is this shorthand for something?

Yesterday, McCain economic adviser Phil Gramm said the U.S. had become a “nation of whiners” over the economy because the recession is largely “mental.”

So if John "Keating Five" McCain and Phil "Father of the Housing Bubble" Graham are the GOPs answer then what is the question?

An actual statement by John "Keating Five" McCain this pat Monday

"Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers in America today. And that's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace, and it's got to be fixed."

Well Duh Sherlock that's how SS was designed to work. How else could it work. Is McCain is ignorant about economics as he tells us he is? You bet.

What
regarding your reply to Rez.a correct reading of the constitution is not rigid thinking.
obama owned and operated by aipac.

reason

regarding your reply to Rez.a correct reading of the constitution is not rigid thinking.

You mean like a correct reading of the Buybull? That kind?