NoGodBlog.com

And to think I supported him in 1988. Since when is blathering about an imaginary sky-god "talking down" to people?

Bwahahahaha! jackson and sharpton are buffons who care only about promoting themselves and earning money and dont really give a goddamn about blacks. I hope people now see him for the self promoting hypocrite that he is.

Well, Jesse Jackson carries that "Rev." title in front of his name. That gives him license to do and say whatever the hell he wants, doesn't it? And the people just say, "Amen!"

Jesse Jackson should retire right after he uses a time machine to go back about 40 years. He is a bad joke, as is any other joke that is not even slightly funny.

Obama has more substance in his pinky fingernail than Jackson has in his entire body.

I think Bill O'liely wanted to get even with Jesse ever since the famous scandal about black people in a restaurant not even swearing for more iced tea.

There is something nice about two buffoons exposing each other. Maybe we could get a cage match with O'liely versus Jackson. I bet I can guess the first parts Jackson would cut off O'Liely.

I would guess what parts, but he's have to find them first.

Only his dentist knows for sure...

Ha! Yeah, the Obama campaign is really a big game of "pastors gone wild" and "CHANGE-ing positions" ... puh! Obama is a total whore for votes, and an incredibly bad colleage to Hillary Clinton or anybody else who makes him look bad.

QF's Blog: www.irrationaltheorist.blogspot.com

I don't know why Dave started this thread on Jackson. He has the Rev title but so what? Please tell me this isn't a jewish vendetta thing.

I dunno if I'd blame him if it was. One thing that always rankles me about anyone with the title "Reverend" in their name is that it seems to increase their ability to act horribly and get away with it.

When Jackson dies, he's going to be remembered as this great man -- so respectable and associated with this his god and civil rights and all that. While I wouldn't want to unfairly take away from his good points, though, he's also they guy who talked about heimy-town. You can bet it's not going to come up at his funeral.

It's precisely that ability to get a pass on things like anti-semeticism that allows an even greater range of people like him to get a pass on making statements about atheists. It reflects a sickness in society, and allowing him to get away with it for Jews because their "aren't us" is a little like that story about how you can't turn a blind eye to others having their rights taken away because yours might be next.

"The Daily Show" aired the clip and Jackson didn't just refer to Obama as a N, he said he (Jackson) wanted to cut his (Obama's) "nuts" off.

Nothing says cynical pandering more than a man parading around in a religious costume talking about castrating a presidential candidate on the air.


What may be worse is that I have a hard time seeing Jackson saying any of this about a white candidate. It really looks like he's not just racist but has a streak of hatred for other black people, especially those who are more successful than he is.

What a disgrace.

It's gonna be ugly seeing Obama pander to church "values" to keep the support of black and Latin voters -- to and synagogue values for the Jewish vote; he's already shown AIPAC he's more to the right on Israel than Bush 1 OR Bush 2.

But McCain would be much worse for secularism. At least Obama's come out strong against school vouchers.

Cynic

It reflects a sickness in society, ...

Huh. Jackson shooting his fool mouth off reflects a "sickness in society"? How so?

... and allowing him to get away with it for Jews because their "aren't us" is a little like that story about how you can't turn a blind eye to others having their rights taken away because yours might be next.

Get away with what? Do you think jews don't say similar things about blacks? I have heard some of most racially bigoted crap imaginable coming out of the minds and mouths of jews.

This Jackson post was an example of Dave's low class approach on this blog.

I voted for Jackson in the one Democratic presidential primary I recall him running in. It has always pained me that he has so little regard for CCS, but on most issues he seemed to be right.

Blacks use the N-word among themselves. And in the instance Dave cited, he wasn't speaking for himself, he was characterizing Obama's position.

The "Hymietown" remark was not anti-"Semitic". It was dead-on. That became clear when the Hymietown vote screwed Jerry Brown because he wouldn't renounce his friendship with Jackson. To its everlasting shame, the NY Jewish community deprived us of our last chance at a decent president in the 20th century.

It's a shame that AA doesn't have more black members, to speak up in their own defense.

NSF

It's a shame that AA doesn't have more black members, to speak up in their own defense.

Yes it is. AA should be doing some outreach to the black community.

Ok, what I am seeing...

Yes, he used the N-word.

I don't see how he called ANYONE an N-word. Look at the quote..he is accusing Obama of talking down to black people. He is more or less saying Obama's attitudes are LIKE he is telling 'n-words' how to behave. He is putting the n-word into Obama's mouth...going back to the old "he's not black enough" criticism.

So, in my interpretation, Jackson did not use the n-word. He did use the other n-word, 'nuts', but c'mon, this is all getting blown way out of proportion.

Sounds like Ted Haggard! Using religion to shield his own hypocritical views.

Mdetrano -

this is all getting blown way out of proportion

You've got to be kidding!! A smoking gun like this can't be blown out of proportion enough! I'd venture to say we could push it up to Ted Haggard proportions of revealing hypocrisy in folks who are otherwise blindly followed by the weak and uncritically minded....

The title of this piece makes it sound as if he isn't already irrelevant: He hasn't done anything in my lifetime to make him any sort of moral voice. Besides, he is already a hypocrite: white, male "rapists" at duke hiring a black stripper, almost getting sent to jail, is perfectly alright for name calling and media circus about classism, sexism, racism, etc; but how dare a shock-jock small time radio host say nappy headed hoes. Jackson has done so much, he should just issue an apology to the world and go into retirement.

Dave

If you want to see something really revolting take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWOs2RtjIUM

Why is it that rabbis like this get a free ride from you on this blog? It took me 30 seconds to find this video by simply googling with key words "rabbi" and "blacks". Do you suffer from a highly selective laziness?

Your Jackson thread was in response to no significant event that should concern AA in particular. Therefore all of us here should be wondering what compelled you to make this post.

What,

I think it's perfectly clear why this topic got posted. The Rev. Jesse Jackson is another example of hypocrisy among the religious elite in this country and doggone it, he got busted.

And, yes, rabbis should be held to the same standard... the video you've pointed to is a jewish nobody. Do you have a better example of the jewish elite holding up pictures of monkeys and comparing them to blacks? THEN you would have something.

I don't see how he called ANYONE an N-word.

Jackson DID use the word "nigger" in a conversation but it was a different conversation from the one in which he criticised Barky for "talking down to blacks". I wouldnt care because "nigger" is just a word except that jackson has made a career out of silencing others from using this very word.

It's a shame that AA doesn't have more black members, to speak up in their own defense.

Blacks are among the most religious (and homophobic) demographic in America. Its not AA's fault that blacks arent atheists and I actually believe that religion might be one of the few things that keeps many blacks from being more prone to crime than they already are. Maybe we shouldnt encourage atheism in the black community for our own sake. After having my car window broken two times this month while it was parked in Durham and my GPS and cell phone stolen in broad daylight Im feeling especially wary of blacks now and have lost any and all interst in trying to ever co exist around them.

Comment from: josh_karpf

At least Obama's come out strong against school vouchers.

Why are you against school vouchers? Europe allows tax dollars to be spent on any type of school, causing competition, resulting in a much better education...

Or do you stand on the side of AA and would rather keep kids in failing schools to support a myth...?

Hey Alex...

Would you please contact me. I've got a very good friend who's son has just come out.

I love this kid and I always will. Since I have absolutely no idea of what he's going through, I was wondering if I could pick your brains...

Let's not forget that the great Dem Senator from the great state of West Virginia, Robert K.K.K. Byrd used the "n" word...

Without a whimper from the thought police...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0FIBJt-c2o0

3E8

I think it's perfectly clear why this topic got posted. The Rev. Jesse Jackson is another example of hypocrisy among the religious elite ..

Are you serious? Do you really regard Jesse Jackson as principally a religious figure? I don't any more than I regard Al Sharpton or Martin Luther King Jr as religious figures. They are or were political figures. Dave knows this. He also knows they are black.

... the video you've pointed to is a jewish nobody.

He's a rabbi. That makes him a somebody in the jewish community.

3E8

I think it's perfectly clear why this topic got posted. The Rev. Jesse Jackson is another example of hypocrisy among the religious elite ..

Are you serious? Do you really regard Jesse Jackson as principally a religious figure? I don't any more than I regard Al Sharpton or Martin Luther King Jr as religious figures. They are or were political figures. Dave knows this. He also knows they are black.

... the video you've pointed to is a jewish nobody.

He's a rabbi. That makes him a somebody in the jewish community.

Hey Alex...

Would you please contact me.

Officer that was last time we ever heard from Alex.

Phreeky thinks Europe is a country.

Dave,
Check out the lyrics to "Rhymin Man" by F.Zappa

Nader is beginning to look like the only "Democrat" running this year. Just curious... are we all as frustrated as I am about our lack of choices?

obama was talking down to colored people.those people like the other races have females who can't keep their legs closed an men get the blame.
Alex 75 yrs ago this level of crime did not exist because even white men were afraid of the night riders.

phreedm

I love this kid and I always will. Since I have absolutely no idea of what he's going through, I was wondering if I could pick your brains...

If you love him, support him and don't try to change him. Don't give him any "abomination " crap. If you can't do that, leave him the hell alone.

reason
Once again, I don't know how to read you. Are you flaming, or are you really as ignorant as your post sounds?

Dpes anybody have any idea what the heck it is that Jesse Jackson does for money? Does he have a 'job'? My guess is that he pulls in dough from speaking engagements. If so, he must be pulling it in by the bucket full!

A few years ago I lived in Huntsville, TX, and he showed up, along with the Black Panthers and other trouble-making types, to protest the execution of a black man. He didn't stay in little Huntsville because none of the motels were fine enough but camped out in Houston in a posh hotel. And he didn't drive up but helicoptered in. He may be black but I'm thinking he isn't one of the 'regular' black people, Reverend or not.

Karen

I don't think Reason was flaming. Which leaves the other alternative?

GF&G

What are "regular black people"? There are plenty of people that would think we atheists and the heads of our organizations are "trouble-making types"?

I'm in agreement w/ Alex. I'd prefer blacks stay right where they are - baby-daddies thanking Jeebus when they get an award for rhyming some shit.

Matador

Would you elaborate a bit. It's difficult to decipher what the point of your last post was beyond displaying some unapologetic racism.

I don't think Ellen Johnson would have tolerated the racism presently being displayed by Dave.

Reinstate Ellen.

Let the lesson of Jesse Jackson teach us the importance of using reason and logic in our discourse, rather than ad hominem attacks and other emotional outbursts.

We're all guilty, including the posters who are slamming Jesse Jackson. The lesson we can learn about the effectiveness of this behavior can be summed up as follows:

What has Jesse Jackson accomplished in the last 40 years?

Nothing.

What,

"Well they do it too.....!"-type arguments are juvenile. Of course members of all groups do this kind of shit. That doesn't make it right. That doesn't mean you can't single out an individual and suggest their behavior shouldn't have been tolerated when it has been because "they" (the people it was against) "do it too".

"They do it too" never flew in the principal's office, and most parents of a certain generation might even be inclined to retort with a certain question about a bridge.

We're talking about national response here -- the reflection of what "polite" society considers acceptable, as voted upon by their response (or lack thereof). That's the sickness reflected in society that I'm talking about -- the sickness that allows someone making a joke like Imus get nearly lynched and people like Bush Sr. suggesting that atheists aren't even citizens barely noticed at all.

Comically enough, we're talking about the same thing -- hey, why are "they" getting a free pass, huh? Except when I do it, I'm suggesting that NO ONE should get a free pass, but it seems like (to me) your motivation is more about trying to fallaciously invalidate the one person's complaint because "they do it too". (You really need to learn these fallacies.)

I don't understand how people, who consider themselves rationalists, can set others aside, based on the color of their skin in an "us vs them" mentality. Chris is right. Where's the reason and logic in that?

alexatheist,

For the record, blacks are too atheists. I'm black and an atheists.
So what credibility does that lend to your comments.

You said: Its not AA's fault that blacks arent atheists and I actually believe that religion might be one of the few things that keeps many blacks from being more prone to crime than they already are.

I say: This is true, but what does that have to do with the price of peanuts in China? This is a parallel position that Christians take toward atheists; with one major difference. Christians see atheists as blacks without religion "TODAY". They see us (atheists) as a danger to their society; as moraless and evil beings. Are their concerns true also?

Perhaps you should be more careful when you stereo type other minorities; you might see the same bigotry in your own words that you've experienced as an atheist from Xtians.

You said: Maybe we shouldnt encourage atheism in the black community for our own sake.

I say: Maybe the Christians shouldn't allow atheists in their great Xtian country called United States of America for their own sake. Does that sound familiar?

You said: After having my car window broken two times this month while it was parked in Durham and my GPS and cell phone stolen in broad daylight Im feeling especially wary of blacks now and have lost any and all interst in trying to ever co exist around them.

I say: Can you confirmed that blacks were responsible for breaking into your car, stilling your GPS, and your cell phone?

I cannot believe the bullsh$t that is coming out of your head. I'm not saying blacks do not commit crimes disproportionate to their numbers, but to group all black into one big pile of crap is wrong. All of your comments are laced with racism.

hello karen
satire my dear don't you know we conservatives are woman hating racists.
all business now this blame men thing has gotten out of hand both genders need to be held responsible.it is not like folks don't see all the hurting out of wedlock children.
good advice to phreedm and hats off to phreedm for caring about this kid.
what
i liked to see more rabbi bashing too they aren't innocents.

public executions will lower the crime rate. shame on the supreme court for baring the execution of sex offenders.the states should be able to decide what crimes merit the death penalty.

reason

all business now this blame men thing has gotten out of hand both genders need to be held responsible.it is not like folks don't see all the hurting out of wedlock children.

Who's blaming men? What are you talking about? What is this in reference to?

I'm all for personal responsibility, regardless of gender. If you think I'm a man-basher, I don't know where you got that idea.

Karen

Who's blaming men? What are you talking about? What is this in reference to?

I think reason is off on a bender these past few days. He'll sober up. I think.

"Well they do it too.....!"-type arguments are juvenile.

The argument would be juvenile if one was trying to excuse behavior with it. But I was not. So, fallacies be damned, you made one huge assumption. My complaint is about Dave's notorious reputation for giving jews that "free pass" as you said.

We're talking about national response here -- the reflection of what "polite" society considers acceptable, as voted upon by their response (or lack thereof). That's the sickness reflected in society that I'm talking about ...

You still have not told me what that sickness is. Is it that this one particular black man was not being polite? Is that a societal sickness?

Jackson ran his fool mouth off. He deserves to be criticized strongly for what he said. Just not here on the NoGodBlog. The appearance of this post, which is unrelated to religious matters, appears to be a stereotypical jewish response, displayed by Dave, to Jackson and possibly blacks in general.

karen,what
jackson said that obama was talking down to blacks.if you recall obama blasted blackmen for being absentee fathers.i don't care for jackson but obama to blast black men on fathers day was a cheap shot.
so no karen i'm not calling you a man basher.

What better day to blast an absentee father than father's day? Is that a day an absentee father should be comfortable?

What,

OK, scrap logic class. Maybe start with English?

Cynic
do politicians trash mothers on mothers day.no they do not furthermore if they are so concerned about absentee fathers why wait until father's day.it is simply a cheap stunt to turnout the retard vote.

What-

Unapologetic racism? No...simply a nod to reality.

As I once wrote to Ellis Washington:

"Should someone who kneels at the altar of his ancestors' masters be throwing the word 'slave' around so much?"

If more blacks were interested in flying solo - as in being personally accountable for their lives - we'd have more of them as members.

I think Ellen is aware that there are two sides to the "race" card. I used to correspond w/ her about various incidents in my day-to-day life as a non-theist. One such incident was where I was prompted to forcibly eject a black man from my personal space after he invaded it muttering a bunch of trash talk(he called it prayer) about "white devils".

Atheon-

BTW - I had a similar experience to Alex's in Rochester, NY. This city is a war zone where everybody leaves a car-length ahead of them at traffic lights and white people are warned that they venture outside at night at their own risk.

The culprits couldn't have been anything but black.

...they stole my cassette tapes and left a tool box w/ over $400 worth of professional-grade plumber's tools and a cordless drill. You'd think they'd have seen a future use for the drill.

Interesting side note:
Where I come from, a working man has at least a passing acquaintance w/ a Thermos bottle. While visiting Rochester, I tried to have mine filled w/ coffee at an all-black McD's(purple arches - no shit). They looked at it like it was the 1st time they'd ever set eyes on such an implement.

My best friend is black. I'm white; she is black, and that's where our differences end.

BTW, she'd kick the shit out of idiots that break into cars.

Everything a politician does is political -- that's what makes them politician. It's like putting an artist's painting down for being artsy. Why yes, it is.

On father's day, it reasonates better. They don't pick on mothers so much for that because their aren't quite as many absentee mothers (not that they don't exist). Specifically, we're talking about something Barack Obama was talking about. He's black, so can be expected to be closer the issue because it's considered a "black problem" (not that it's theirs exclusively by a long shot). Plus, his own father was absent.

You're right -- his decision to say something about the subject on father's day was pure political manuevering. He stays in his house all year long, never giving speaches, and then BAM! here's out there yakking it up for votes. Or, he's out there talking every day, and on father's day, it was topical.

Which is more reasonable, "Reason"?

I believe the thread was on the subject of the relevence of Jesse Jackson. For being irrelevent, he certainly has stirred up a lot of conversation here.

What I find remarkable is that those who are self appointed leaders of the cause of African Americans are also self proclaimed reverands. As though there were some connection between the suffering of black Americans and the Christian religion.

MLK dreamed of a day when black Americans were judged, not by the color of his skin, but, by the content of his character. That day is arriving. Obama is a man, not a god, and he will make mistakes. I am personally disappointed by his pandering to hispanics and his idea of a revised "faith based initiative", but what really turns my face red is when John McCain calls television evangelists like Jerry Falwell the "voice of intolerence", but, as soon as he decides to run for president, he appears in Falwell's church to speak to the congregation dressed in a robe that made him look like the pope on Christmas.

Obama's father's day speech may have been preachy, but, the fact of the matter is that when a black American is making a serious run at the white house, it is time for black Americans to stop using white supression as an excuse for failure, and to step up to the plate and face the same scrutiny as the rest of us as to whether or not we are fulfilling our duties as providers and parents.

NeoWolfe

matador,

To be clear, its not that I don't understand what you and alexatheist are saying, because I do. I admit, blacks commit alot of crimes; however, THEY don't commit them all. Furthermore, not all blacks are criminals.

The point is that I'm against general remarks that group ALL blacks into a category of theives, drug dealers, and gang bangers. I would prefer to see individuals preface comments like the ones you two made with "SOME" blacks rather than just blacks as in ALL.

For my sake and for others like me, making this simple adjustment will create a place for us to exist and be acknowledged in casual conversation.

Furthermore, I need the rest of the world, atheist included, to know that there are blacks that don't fit the stereotype. I'm black and I'm atheists, so I'm fighting on two fronts. Blacks don't except me and I don't feel accepted by atheists (my own...) when I read comments like those above. If I can't establish an existance with my freethinking comrads, then I"m fuc%ed!

neowolfe:

What I find remarkable is that those who are self appointed leaders of the cause of African Americans are also self proclaimed reverands. As though there were some connection between the suffering of black Americans and the Christian religion.

That is the connection. White society deprived blacks of virtually everything -- except religion. Blacks follow their preachers for the same reason Muslims follow brutal dictators: because it's all they've got.

MLK dreamed of a day when black Americans were judged, not by the color of his skin, but, by the content of his character. That day is arriving.

Have you read the posts by alexatheist and matador? If atheists can be that bigoted, how can you think the rest of society is ready for racial equality?

it is time for black Americans to stop using white supression as an excuse for failure, and to step up to the plate and face the same scrutiny as the rest of us

That's not an excuse. It's a reason.

Practise what you preach -- judge blacks the same way you'd judge yourself or other whites: by the way they take personal responsibility for matters they have personal control over.

Cynic
i hear what you are saying but how much bs before we the people wake up.
soft fascism has taken over.an economic policy that benefits the top 4% a phoney war on terror that allows millions illegal entry.street crime that makes some areas a no go zone.sooner or later this house of cards will collapse.

atheon-

I get along better w/ black people on a one-to-one basis...the ones whom I meet as a result of common employment or interest. As a guitarist in my youth, I once did an audition where present logic would have told me that I might not leave w/ my guitar...if I was lucky. My folks thought I was nuts to be sticking my head into a "lions' den".

These cats were cool enough and had primo smoke, but I didn't have the R&B chops they wanted. At least I hadn't walked into a set-up. That was then and this is now.

Something changed as I grew. I became aware that while I was taught to live and let live, black kids weren't - apparently.

I now believe that the message of MLK - which I embraced as the truth - set me up to be a sucker for predators.

Look - I'm sure that Hispanic atheists exist.

That does not make me blind to the motives of the RCC to bolster its numbers in the US by its support of illegal aliens from a predominantly-Catholic country.

Experience has hardened my idealism into pragmatism. This is something you can't teach.

I should probably stop posting on forums.

Cynic

OK, scrap logic class. Maybe start with English?

My logic was sound. Your's was tragically flawed with a huge assumption. So what do you do? You turn to trying to insult me? Take your best shot.

To Not So Fast,
I gather your a black American, and if your not it's unimportant. What other individuals on this site said is unimportant, because you cannot group me with them. As a child I grew up in a small town in Idaho where there were no black Americans. But, I was taught that that is not a "black man", that is a man.

I would gladly extend my hand to you judging you exactly as MLK said. Not knowing you, it is impossible to judge the content of your character. So let's leave introductions to another time.

My older brother recieved the same training and turned into a bigot piece of crap. Go figure.

But, let me make myself clear, I don't take back anything I said. Blacks were dealt a raw hand, and no one can make right the injustices, but that is irrelevent, you cannot resurrect the unjustly murdered, you cannot execute the guilty who are already in their graves. What you can do though is turn around the lives of your family and the people you love. Senator Obama just showed how possible it is. It's a new day, and if some things I say sound harsh, it's kinda like the alarm clock going off in the morning saying don't be late for work, because the job is just beginning.

Good luck to all of us.

NeoWolfe

My older brother recieved the same training and turned into a bigot piece of crap. Go figure.

Neo-I know what you mean. My little bro is repusively racist. No one in our family can figure out why. Sometimes I'd like to stick my foot up his ass. I mean most times.

matador,

I understand, its hard to know if people are inviting you over for dinner because they want to share a meal with you or because they want share YOU as a meal.

My friend, I strongly recommend that you remain skeptical and aware at all times in your dealings with people; blacks, whites, hispanics, etc. You just never know if you will be mislead for one reason or another, and it does not have to be racial. It could be greed, jealousy, envy, or just stupidity.

atheon,

Count me as one more 'white' atheist who supports your position 100%. I'm sure there are racist atheists (no accusations) but it just seems like a contradiction to think really clearly about one subject and utterly simplistically about another.

Bottom line: It's lazy thinking to say that people with a certain concentration of melanin in their skin are inherently a certain way. What next, stereotypes about blood types? Why not? It's physiologically more significant!

Lazy thinking like that is also what I see when people decide that there must be a god. Little wonder then, that churches are the most segregated part of American society and the most likely place to find racists.

Where might we be if segregated religion had not been the center of American social life all these decades?

Chris B,

I'm glad to know that we are in agreement, which suggests that on some level we've had a meeting of the minds.

I believe that an intellectual meeting of the minds (MOM) between two people is as emotionally rewarding as a devine revelation.

I also believe that an intellectual MOMs based on reason can and will allow men to transcend racial and physical constraints. (Just as you and I did!)

Religious people try to acheive this through prayer, beliefs in false truths, self mutilation, fasting (starving...), mental gymnastics, tithing, and false confessions.

Just imagine, we didn't have to do any of that stuff...

Thx

I also believe that an intellectual MOMs based on reason can and will allow men to transcend racial and physical constraints.

And women too! Look out for sexist language :)

I'm sure there are racist atheists (no accusations) but it just seems like a contradiction to think really clearly about one subject and utterly simplistically about another. - Chris B

Humans are pattern-seekers. Giving someone a second, third, fourth, etc. chance to screw you over requires faith.

The faithless give very few, if any, second chances...don't we?

cry4turtles,

My apologizies... women too!