NoGodBlog.com

We also have Amish in North Carolina-- in parts of NC that I never go to-- but I have seen them at a farm show. I have heard that they are strong believers in "spare the rod and spoil the child" and readily use corporal punishment. I know that some of them use tobacco products (and have resulting diseases) because the Bible does not mention tobacco. I also know that they are very wily businesspeople despite their lack of formal education (8th grade only). Anybody else here know more about the Amish than I know?

We need a zero population growth policy. We should heavily tax anybody having more than two children.

The Amish are legally allowed to not allow their kids to ever enter high school. After 8th grade, the vast majority of Amish people go right to work. They fought in court to be allowed to do this. Amazing.

As they grow out into modern society, I believe they will become more of a problem for America.

Joe Zamecki
Austin

My entire family was killed by the Amish.....quilts......wheat......the horror

Problem for America...... huh,

They keep to themselves., are self-sufficant, have little crime (that we know about anyways), and have very little impact on the environment. When the amish turn 18 they spend a year in modern society to choose for themselves which life they want to live. They are not out bible thumping. I see no problem here, the only negative impact I see is that sometimes we end up late due to being stuck behind one of their carriages.

What, you do realize that historically cultures with less than a 2.2 population growth rarely surive. I've never felt excess population growth was really a problem as 1 it is usually reduced by epidemic of some sort (which we are wholly overdo for) or it forces groups to adapt and reach out past their boundries ie possible colonization of other planets.

There was a cool National Geographic show on the Amish kids who get to live normal lives for two years from age 16 to 18. They were pretty normal as far as conforming and not conforming but they all were naive to the ways of the world in many aspects. Some stayed Amish and some left the religion.

I grew up very near Lancaster PA and was exposed to the Amish quite often. They are generally very nice people, but as mentioned above their technophobic tendencies go hand in hand with anti-intellectualism.

And of course like virtually all other Jeebus-brand cults they are deeply homophobic.

One of my first jobs as a youth was repairing TVs at a shop in Lancaster county. This small one man business sold more battery operated TVs than any other Zenith dealer in the US. We report, you decide.

I do admire the Amish for their pacifism, a practice to which I also aspire.

We used to live in Maryland and would go up to the Amish country in PA pretty often. I loved it up there and I thought the Amish were very friendly. We took a tour of an Amish house (no one lived in it, I think it was set up as sort of a museum). Our tour guide was a Mennonite who had been Amish.

I seriously do not have a problem with the Amish. I just watched a Nat Geo special on cults last night - at least the Amish aren't like those fruitcakes!

I think their beliefs are wrong and I'm against corporal punishment for children, but a lot of other folks have beliefs and child-rearing techniques I disagree with. I'd take the Amish over poor white trailer trash xians any day!

p.s. I live on the Space Coast in Florida and I'm getting tired of this darn TS Fay. Would someone please pray to whichever deity controls tropical storms and floods???

:-)

It seems like the low-tech agriculture causes this need for expansion across so many states. I wonder at what point that will be perceived as a problem - that so much land is being used less productively than it could be?

I know quite a lot about the Amish, having lived close to a large population for many years. I also had a good friend who signed on as their “Englishman” and worked with them in construction and I learned many ‘inside’ things from him. They need “Englishmen” because they don’t own cars and need a driver.

As a group they have many fine qualities but, of course, their religious beliefs tick me off. For instance, it is perfectly fine to use a telephone but not to have one in your home. The reason for this is that the line brings the outside world into the home. And it is perfectly fine, if you are Amish and have a non-Amish neighbor with a phone, to wear a deep path to that neighbor’s house to use his phone frequently and drive those people up the wall. I haven’t lived near them since cell phones became common and I wonder if they use cell phone these days since there is no dreaded line involved.

The same is true of electricity. They don’t want that line coming into their homes. But it is fine to use electricity and all of the benefits elsewhere. They use doctors, hospitals and advances in medicine when absolutely necessary so things that are run by electricity and things that modern science has brought to us are okay.

There are non-Amish who make a living driving Amish to work, doctor's appointments, etc. and some even vacation in Florida. Evidently it is all right, while vacationing, to stay in a motel with electric lights and other modern conveniences, and even to watch television. In their homes they cook with propane and have washing machines run with propane. They are not supposed to have indoor johns, but a few do and carefully lock the pottie away in some closet so that if the bishop drops by he won't know. Most do not have bathtubs and many smell as if they don’t bathe often.

They still plow with teams of horses but tractors are permitted if they have iron wheels. Rubber tires are a no-no.

Rules may vary from sect to sect as every group has a bishop who enforces the rules. Thus there may be some minor differences depending on the particular group of Amish. I know of one family that bought a farm from non-Amish. They had to cut the electricity in the house and barn but were allowed to leave a big outside security light running until the old bishop died and a new one took over.

The reason they are expanding their territory is primarily because they do not practice birth control. Generally they have large families and since farming is their main occupation there is little choice but to find land outside their communities.

So far as I know, Brad is not exactly correct when he says: “When the amish turn 18 they spend a year in modern society to choose for themselves which life they want to live.” I’ve not heard that they are encouraged at all to leave home and live with the rest of us. What, to the best of my knowledge, happens is that the parents and the community tries to turn a blind eye to young people who are bound to experiment. But sending them out to choose would, I’m sure, not be something that would be encouraged since the parents and the family would pretty much be cut off from the child from then on if he leaves the order. It is a sorrowful thing when a child chooses to leave the life and I believe he is considered unsaved and doomed in the afterlife.

They do not have churches but meet in homes. I remember with certainty that they don’t meet every Sunday and I’m thinking they meet only once a month. Every group keeps a stash of benches and as the day for worship approaches they load the benches into wagons and haul them to whatever home is the one chosen for that meeting. It boils down to an entire day of worship. From time to time they pass water and everybody drinks from glasses passed along the rows—glasses that others have just put to their lips, babies and young children included. They break for a main meal.

Between themselves they speak a variation of German that even people who speak German have difficulty understanding and the worship services are held using that language.

Women have little power. I had a friend who sold Avon products and many Amish women bought the products. Some beauty products are permitted (soaps, powders, etc.) but not makeup. She had one young woman with acne who bought some makeup up and used it very sparingly until it was brought to the attention of the bishop and that ended that.

It is extremely rare to find an Amish person with a sense of humor. Generally speaking they are by and large an extremely dour people.

On the up side though, unless things have changed since I lived around them, they put little strain on society at large. They take care of their own—no welfare, Medicaid, Medicare or the like. I don’t know anyone who knows how they manage the big things like monumental hospital bills but so far as I know they don’t believe in insurance of any kind. They add on to the house when their parents become frail and care for them. Nursing homes for the elderly Amish are unheard of.

I haven’t lived around them now for nearly twenty years so I suppose it is possible that they may have inched into the world a bit more and what I’ve said here may not be totally correct by now but I doubt much has changed.

No one has mentioned the puppy mills. The Amish are rotten with puppy mills. Bad Amish!

Brad14146,

What, you do realize that historically cultures with less than a 2.2 population growth rarely surive.

When in history has there ever been a society with 7 billion people in it?

Also, I think you're confusing your terms. "Population Growth" is the change in time of the population. It's not the average number of babies per couple. The average number of babies per couple has to be greater than 2 for a population to have zero growth since undoubtedly some people will not have children.

What's idea of limiting each couple to 2 children would result in negative population growth. Just how negative, I can't say. Personally, I think humanity would be better off if our population were shrinking very slightly each generation. I'm all for the 2 baby limit.

I have no experience with the Amish but do have experience with Mennonites. The Mennonites come in variance flavors ranging from those that shun technology to those that are indistinguishable from the rest of the gadget loving humans. It's somewhat comical to watch them move along that continuum. Black bumper Mennonites are particular amusing - they can drive just as long as they paint their automobiles' bumpers black.

In general they are a scary bunch that put their gawd fantasy above everything including the welfare of their children.

Karen,

No one has mentioned the puppy mills. The Amish are rotten with puppy mills. Bad Amish!

Serious question: Do you have any evidence?

If that's true then I have a new reason to hate the Amish. I'm a pit-bull owner and I am often made aware of just how bad my dog's reputation is when I'm out walking her. The problem is that pit-bulls are popular amongst people who want tough dogs, so naturally they raise their dogs to be tough and their reputation becomes self-fullfilling (granted, pit-bulls are easier to turn into tough dogs than most other breeds).

Puppy mills compound the problem by driving the costs of puppies way down and driving the population of animal shelters up. They also produce dogs that are poorly socialized and help to make all dog's reputations lower by raising the number of poorly behaved dogs.

Let me tell you, living in a city full of cheap, badly behaved dogs can be heartbreaking sometimes. It doesn't help that my dog is easily annoyed by rude puppies. I'm invariably the one that ends up looking bad when my dog flips out because a 100 pound lab just jumped on her head.

Alatham

What's idea of limiting each couple to 2 children would result in negative population growth. Just how negative, I can't say.

There are affluent European countries with little immigration that would serve as good models. Scandnavian countries perhaps. Affluence is tightly correlated with low birth rates. The main reason that the US population grows is immigration. A few days ago I posted a link to article which, if I recall correctly, stated that if it were not for hispanic immigration US population would be decreasing.

What,

I was talking on a global scale though I suppose that's a bit unreasonable since nobody can make a law that applies to the entire planet.

But you're right about immigration, it accounts for a lot of the disparity between population growth from country to country and speed at which minority populations change within those countries.

Ok so the list of bad things the Amish do is growing:

1 Not allowing their kids to get a high school education.

2 Keeping their kids ignorant of the modern world.

3 Espousing an anti-technology and therefore anti-intellectual ideology.

4 Running puppy mills.

5 and I just remembered this little news item: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1970887/posts

They were having legal problems in one little area of Amish country, because they were polluting their own property and outlying properties by dumping their own sewage directly onto their crops as fertilizer.

"The (Amish) owners said they refuse to pay any fines, because it is against their religious beliefs, and will go to jail if necessary."

As a landscaper and a lover of nature, that stinks! In more ways than one.

What else?

Joe Zamecki
Austin, TX

Regarding evidence of Amish puppy mills: http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish8.htm

"In some areas of the U.S. where Amish have settled, there is a high concentration of "puppy mills." The Pennsylvania Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement lists 243 kennels in Lancaster County. PA. Holmes County, OH, has 470 kennels -- more than any other county in the nation."

WTAE in Pittsburgh, PA, broadcasted an investigative report on puppy mills on 2006-MAY-04. 3 Reporter Sheldon Ingram wrote, in part:

"For those who have never heard of a puppy mill, it's equivalent to solitary confinement for young dogs, with substandard conditions. As a result, some of the dogs that emerge from puppy mills look either malnourished or in overall bad health. Channel 4 Action News went undercover to investigate dogs pulled from puppy mills.

Fed and bred. That's it. No walks. No interaction with humans. That means the dogs eat and relieve themselves in the same 2-by-2-foot cage for about eight years until their breeding days are done. ...

U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum, (R-PA), introduced legislation to crack down on puppy mills and has fought for changes for 10 years. 'People who are breeding large quantities of dogs now but selling them directly have an exemption under the Animal Welfare Act. And that has to change,' Santorum said. 'Unfortunately, a lot of folks -- including the ones you've been investigating -- are exempted under the law."



Isn't there also a federal law that exempts religious organizations from enforcement of most laws? Would this problem fall into that category? If so, the Amish are getting two different exemptions from what is otherwise a good and necessary law.

Joe Zamecki
Austin, TX

Alatham

Sorry for the late reply; I was blogging elsewhere. Just google Amish puppy mills and take your pick of any number of accounts, mostly in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Joe Z

"The (Amish) owners said they refuse to pay any fines, because it is against their religious beliefs, and will go to jail if necessary."

Hopefully the jailers will be able to accommodate their religious needs by removing the flushing toilets and lightbulbs from their cells. Maybe if they are kept in isolation they might start to see what those puppies formative years are like.

I had an Amish buggy in my yard all day yesterday and his horse tucked away in my barn as the Amish fella helped on the farm. He was a very plesant guy, and we laughed and joked about the teenyboppers who were slacking as we put up straw.

His horse was in much better shape than mine. This man loved his horse (Frank), and took impeccible care of him. I was surprised to see he wore a decent set of false teeth in his mouth. Modern dentistry anyone?

I live in the heart of the old Stoneboro Amish community, and never knew of any who had puppy mills. I know outwardly they appear to be a pious people, but truthfully, Amish men are no different than the "English". They drink beer, smoke weed, and cheat on their wives any chance they get:)

The period they're allowed to experience the "English ways" is called "Rumspring", and yes, they do chose their own path then. I've partyed with many of them during this time. They have awsome stereos in their buggys, and love riding our 4-wheeler. If they chose to leave the sect, they still see their families. Years ago, one of my good friends chose to leave. He simply could not attend formal religious activities. Other than that, he stayed in touch. He was an awful kisser though! Blah!!!

How many other religions allow this exploration? 0 (to my knowledge).

Yes they use cell phones now, especially if they have a business. If they buy a house with electricity already established, they may use it (at least in the sects I know).

I like Amish people, even though most around here call them "stinky-butts". They grow the meanest veggies, and make butter that takes me back to the 60's. YUM! They always smile and wave, and will be the first in our community to volunteer assistance to families that lose barns and outbuildings to disaster. Did you ever see them raise a barn? Poetry in motion, it is.

Women may be a but more passive in Amish society, but my blacksmith's wife definetly rules her roost! I often hear, "I better get home or Melissa will kill me!" He has a cell phone too, but no phone in his house, and he secretly wears Levi's and t-shirts when he can. He still has to hire a driver, or I go get him. This is getting old for him though. I think he complaines about this to the elders as much as he can (to no avail). His daughters are stunningly beautiful. Children are not supposed to learn the English language until school, but most know it anyway.

Perhaps the only reason I may hold a bit of distain for Amish folks is the sexual abuse reported in the news to be rampant, though I've never suspected it in any families I know. I doubt if they wear it on their sleeves. Perhaps it's no more rampant than it is in "English" society. Further research is required (good luck with that one).

I think the Amish are not really different than your xian neighbors: they profess piety, but do not live it fully, other than a few hardliners. But they never preach! Thank Dog or I'd have to move.

Cry4

Amish men are no different than the "English". They drink beer, smoke weed, and cheat on their wives any chance they get:)

Ah so they are a branch of the Mormons?

Seriously I used to play music in a disco band that included three mormons. They drank, abused drugs, had lots of one-night-stands and would try to "save me" from my wicked ways of exercise and reading.

There is a large population of Old Order Mennonites in my county in PA. (Old Order Mennonites are very similiar to the Amish, but they aren't actually Amish...it's a religious difference, they have some different rules, and I think they drive slightly different buggies). Anyhoo...though there are some issues with the Amish/Mennonites, they are beginning to get engaged in community planning efforts. Over the last 10-20 years, we've had a lot of suburban development to the detriment of our farm land, natural beauty and rural heritage. The Mennonites in our community are now some of the most vocal advocates for farmland preservation and stricter zoning laws. This might make sense in some respect, but they are traditionally very politically disengaged. Their efforts and participation will be a big part of the success of our planning efforts...and kudos to them for being involved. It's not always a bad thing. And they don't knock on your door trying to get you to read their newsletter or attend their church.

Interesting post. We live quite near Amish (and Mennonite family around the corner.)
I guess they are like anyone else, strict, lax or in-between.

I was gonna bring up the puppy mill thing, but Karen already did. The very worst part is the conditions the dogs live in. The wire dog crates are STACKED so the lower animals get waste down on them. And they are not healthy dogs or socialized. They make poor pets. It is very sad/incomprehensible. But not all puppy mills are Amish.

Amish are spreading out into this corner of Maryland, if they can afford the exhorbitant land costs. Once in a while we pass a buggy. Luckily their horses are not car-shy!

I like to buy their baked goods when I am too lazy to make my own.

At least they don't come to the door trying to peddle religio-crap.

When I was a kid, we took a family vacation to Hershey Pa. and to Amish Country. What I remember about Hershey was that the whole town smelled so much of chocolate that I got sick of the smell. The aroma in the factory tour was just about overwhelming. When we were offered tastes of chocolate, I didn't even want any.

Of the Amish country, I recall the interminable drive behind the horse and buggies along the no-passing zoned roads, and having to stop dead in the road to wait while a horse decided to take a dump. While touring an Amish "village," I smiled and waved to an Amish woman we passed who was hanging a lovely quilt on a clothesline. She gave me a very stern look, then turned her back to me. We ate lunch in a souvenir shop/diner, but I had some stomach bug and didn't feel well, so I only had a cup of hot tea. Still, I had to keep running downstairs to the bathroom to either throw up or have a case of the runs. I think I was about 8, and my brother, 10. He was bored beyond belief. I was interested, especially in the horses, but felt too much like crap to really have fun. It was a long ride back to Pittsburgh. :-P

Its not just a matter of having less children, its waiting a few years, which is contrary to most religions. Say you have a couple of jesus loving 20 year olds who have two children, and this goes on for 100 years. Now say you have two atheists with their child being born on their 25th birthdays. At the end of this period the atheists will have had one whole less generation of children.

GodFree&Glad, It would almost seem as if you were suggesting that sometimes religion is hypocritical... XD

Fire

You are correct that increasing the generation time would be helpful as well. This increase in generation time no doubt has a lot to do with the connection between affluence and decreased number of births.

The two child limit is just easier to enforce.

Fire

GodFree&Glad, It would almost seem as if you were suggesting that sometimes religion is hypocritical

The religious are often hypocritical and hypercritical - usually simultaneously.

they are pests who should be treated as a burden to the state.others pay taxes so they can live a fairy tale others serve in the armned forces so these pests can live a fairy tale.

man of the people john mccain didn't know he owned 7 homes worth 13 million dollars.i don't like obama but trust a guy who doesn't even know how many homes he has i don't think so.

Of course, in the world of competing ideas, it may be to our advantage to have these weirdos around. It's not like if the Amish disappeared they would all become atheists. Chances are they would fall into the clutches of some enthusiastic church, and we would be that much closer to having everybody believing the same thing. Diversity of religious opinion is what makes many people realize that all religion is based on stuff that people made up. Less diversity = consensus. When religious consensus occurs, atrocities are not far behind.

I sure have enjoyed all the posts here. Learned a lot. Like the time I went to an estate auction in Indiana and met an unfamillar tribe. They wore those hats, had beards, and the men had four button fronts to their pants! I don't know if they were Mennonites or Amish but maybe they procreate profusely because they're wild sex machines? You know, work all day and utilize the night doin what is needed to avoid becoming a dead end branch on the evolutionary bush.

I'm sure that has crossed Condie and GWs minds many times. I don't mean to suggest those two are doin the wild thing on the White House floor when Laura isn't there but, none of them want to let go of the future any more than the Amish want to let go of the past.

Oh I love this:

The Bush administration yesterday announced plans to implement a controversial regulation designed to protect doctors, nurses and other health-care workers who object to abortion from being forced to deliver services that violate their personal beliefs.

If this were to go in effect these arrogant and immoral docs would be purged from the system in a few years. Oh how I hope BushCo gets its way on this!

Please read this article about the mail that sent McBush's campaign staff into a tizzy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/21/politics/main4372096.shtml

What would be the best word to describe John "Keating Five" McCain's campaign staff?

(a) Skittish
(b) Paranoid
(c) Neurotic
(d) Pansies
(e) all the above

Seriously I used to play music in a disco band that included three mormons. They drank, abused drugs, had lots of one-night-stands and would try to "save me" from my wicked ways of exercise and reading.

Too funny! When I was a bartender in Conneaut Lake PA, the Amish from Atlantic (another old Amish community) would come in, drink, bum joints, and hit on me all the time. One even offered me money!

They're just regular guys!

OK, regular guys that stink!

Oops. Another blockquote faux pas.

Oh my Dog, c4t, my Mom grew up in Conneaut, OH.
It's kind of a shit-hole now, but it was really quaint when I was a kid and we would visit.

What--

Okay, I'm going to try that again!

What--

There are affluent European countries with little immigration that would serve as good models. Scandnavian countries perhaps. Affluence is tightly correlated with low birth rates.My family and I were in Norway two years ago. The gov't is encouraging larger families because their aren't enough working age people to support the taxes for the elderly.

Norway has cradle-to-grave social systems set up for their people, and thus a lot of taxes! Cars are taxed at 100%, so you end up paying twice the sticker price. The family we stayed with had just sold their car because they couldn't afford it.

I'm all for lowering the population. I only had one child, so I did my part! However, there are consequences to society for having less children.

Sorry! I can't seem to get it together! That blockquote was supposed to end after "Affluence is tightly correlated with low birth rates." The rest of the stuff is me talking.

Pixel

However, there are consequences to society for having less children.

There is reciprocity everywhere in the universe. Sometimes it makes the prospect of fixing something seem difficult if not impossible. Not in this case.

Pixel

I'm all for lowering the population. I only had one child, so I did my part!

Thank you. I'll bet he/she will be wonderful contributor to a rational society.

This was a "religious" point I failed to mention earlier. Cracks me up.

In Indiana, the Amish groups I observed held that buttons on clothing were proud, not plain, thus the women (not sure if the men were allowed buttons or not) kept their dresses closed with straight pins. Ouch! I never saw any safety pins so evidently those must not be plain enough.

Religion is such a hoot! Then again, maybe they are smarter than the rest of we females. They wear only sensible shoes.

We had only one child too, and our child had only one. So we're doing our best to hold down the exploding population.

I've laughingly said, however, that maybe the influx of illegals is a good thing. They are multiplying like crazy and we may need lots of warm bodies some time in the future to fight the Muslim radicals who are also muliplying like crazy since we won't be getting any help from the Amish.

Personally, I can't get terribly excited about global warming and saving the earth as the unchecked population explosion worldwide will be the end of us IMO and there isn't much I can do about that.

And I can't get very excited about all the "green" talk these days and the need to save the earth, either. Once we are gone I'm pretty sure the earth can take care of itself.

GFG

Personally, I can't get terribly excited about global warming and saving the earth as the unchecked population explosion worldwide will be the end of us IMO and there isn't much I can do about that.

Of course there is and you have done it!

And I can't get very excited about all the "green" talk these days and the need to save the earth, either. Once we are gone I'm pretty sure the earth can take care of itself.

Is that the issue? Isn't the issue the many centuries of pain and suffering that our destruction and contamination of our environment will cause?

Another example of well meaning people doing destructive things to their children because of their fear of death and the hope of eternal life in perfect conditions, not just for themselves, but for their children. Wow, that's new, NOT!!!!!!
Then the thread turns to green energy, it's like rolling the dice.
GodFree, I'm on your side. If you are personally practicing population control without government mandate, you've earned a level of respect from me as a free thinker and a part of the solution, and not the problem.
Go back and read Mark Farris posts, we are free thinkers on the same page, I think. You may disagree, and that's okay. Invitation to meet in open forum.

NeoWolfe

Thanks NeoWolfe, glad I'm not alone.

What: Sorry, but I've done the best I can. I harbor no guilt and I cannot fix the world. Bad things happen to animals every day and some of them are human animals. The future contamination of the planet is out of my hands. As I see it, not harboring any religious belief, my purpose on this earth was to procreate. I did that in moderation. So above that 'task' I concentrate on causing as few problems for others as I can and making myself and my family as happy as I can for as long as I have left. What happens after I'm gone probably won't be pretty but it is out there waiting regardless of what I do.

I leave it to you to fix the world. Good luck.

GF&G

I harbor no guilt and I cannot fix the world.

You underestimate your potential. I don't - yours or mine.

What happens after I'm gone probably won't be pretty but it is out there waiting regardless of what I do.

We don't know what is waiting.

For many decades we have seen major threats to our forests, air quality, water quality, soil sustainability, and more. During those decades some people rose to the task of protecting the environment. Our present environment would have been awful without their hard work. I'll bet your pretty darned happy that others did that work aren't you? How will you thank them?

Pay it forward.

Tell it to the Chinese, the Indians, the Mexicans and any other group with high birth rates. I can't halt the population explosion and I'm not putting any money on you. Over population is the real problem.

GF&G

Tell it to the Chinese ...

Tell them what?

I can't halt the population explosion and I'm not putting any money on you.

Huh? What does that even mean?

Over population is the real problem.

I agree so we should be calling our senators and pushing for population control legislation. The Chinese already have a one child policy. We have lots of influence in India and Mexico. International aid and business interests could eaily be tied to population reduction measures.

GF&G

I noticed that he didn't answer my question: How will you thank them?

he didn't -> you didn't

What

Hopefully the jailers will be able to accommodate their religious needs by removing the flushing toilets and lightbulbs from their cells. Maybe if they are kept in isolation they might start to see what those puppies formative years are like.

I like that!

cry4turtles

Children are not supposed to learn the English language until school, but most know it anyway.

I'm glad to hear they're trying. There is so much bigotry in this country against other languages, they must be fighting an uphill battle.

English is rapidly becoming the world's universal language. Schoolchildren in nearly all countries are being taught it routinely, sometimes starting as early as their own language. If this goes on, other languages will go extinct one by one, and finally English will be the only language anyone can speak. The loss of a language is the same kind of loss to the store of human knowledge as the extinction of a species.

The only way this trend could be resisted is for children to be taught in their own language as long as possible, and leave English to be taught as a foreign language in the later school years.

NotSoFast

The loss of a language is the same kind of loss to the store of human knowledge as the extinction of a species.

I think that's a very good analogy.

I’m an only child and my son is an only child, but I hope he has 2 kids because we need more Atheists.

I like Amish noodles and milk. My stomach reacted badly after eating at an Amish restaurant in Ohio. I think it might have been the water used in the iced tea.

I think we should not overestimate the use of English as a universal lingua franca, especially with the growth of Chinese.

Interestingly nine British MP's have nominated Esperanto for the Nobel Peace Prize 2008.

You can see detail at http://www.lernu.net

I think we should not overestimate the use of English as a universal lingua franca, especially with the growth of Chinese.

Interestingly nine British MP's have nominated Esperanto for the Nobel Peace Prize 2008.

You can see detail at http://www.lernu.net